Shore at twilight.

[fragile_bloom]

............she promises Shouryo that if his kingdom falls, she will take care of refugees from his country.

“放心吧，那是肯定会兑现的。”阳子笑了，“等延王去世后，雁国举国都陷入一片混乱的时候，我向你保证那时我会像重建庆国一样帮你重建雁国的。请放心交给我吧。”

After making En-Ou verbally agree to lead the mission to find Taiki, Youko very lightheartedly said the following (translation of the above):

"Do not worry" Youko laughed, "If the king of En dies, En will be in chaos, I assure (guarantee) that I would help rebuild En like I am rebuilding Kei. Do not worry".

Isn't the she sweet?

I think she is very clever to make En-Ou take on the responsibility of finding Taiki.

En-O agreed to lead the mission to find Taiki, a complex mission which might violate heaven's rules thus putting En in danger. Like what nightchaser said, there were compelling reasons why he should lead the mission. He cannot afford to have all his neighbours in crisis. If Kei helps Tai and as a result fall into chaos, he would have more worries. Of course, being a lady's man, he cannot say no to Youko. She was professionally sweet in her long speech which made En agree to help. At one point during this meeting, she hurled insulting accusations at En-Ou.

She finally played her cards right and the meeting ended the way she wanted it to end....let En lead the mission and save Kei from the ackward situation of not being able to help a desperate Risai. I never liked Youko but I was very impressed with the way she handled the delimma brought forth by Risai's request for help. She's just brilliant.....pass the responsibility to the all powerful En! Of course, En-ou subsequently led the mission very professionally and everyone took that as a learning experience.

[beranda]

nightchaser

Actually, Kousho could go to Tai - all he would have to do is renounce his position and become a common citizen again. Then he can go anywhere he wants.

Well, if you look at it that way, of course he can. As an ordinary citizen.
But it's not mentioned earlier in the discussion. So i took it that Kousho wasn't talking about leaving his post - he just wanted to help Tai and Risai. I don't know what exactly he says in the novel. So if he wants to help Tai and for the sake of it to retire from his official position - yes, it doesn't violate the heaven's mandate.
But here another question rises - what's for him in Tai and Risai that he's ready to abandon his empress (who happens to be his friend as well) and his kingdom, especially when they need him so much?
I already understood that noone has any answers for that one.
About his post -

The big man that held a long sword in one hand was Daiboku (大僕) from Military Affairs (Kakan, 夏官). Under the command of Syajin (射人) who has control over personal bodyguards of the emperor and important officials, Daiboku is very close to the emperor at all times. When privacy is needed, Daiboku stays beside the emperor and orders the minor officials. Even now, three minor officials were following around Daiboku.

Frankly speaking, i re-read it and re-read it and re-read it and i still have no clear idea what's this post EXACTLY means and what are his responsibilities after all. But i'm not sure his responsibilities are limited by this "inner palace-outer palace" thing. Whatever...

I think it is very easy to imagine why Youko and the other's would want to help Tai.

Yes! You're absolutely right! I don't have any problems understanding why they'd want to help Tai!
What i don't understand is why such a wish is so immediate,passionate, ardent, "i'll help them no matter what", personal (for the lack of better word)?
Sorry, but the thoughts about the consequenses for Kei enter Youko's mind a bit later according to the novel. She rushes to help Tai long before those thoughts about wonderful practical things you describe in your post about refugees rise in her mind (i read this part, so i know what i'm talking about) AND the possible violation on heaven's mandate - something she learns in the "Shadow of the Moon" but completely forgets here till En-ou explains it to her ONCE AGAIN...
You see, as a whole i don't have a big problem with the story.
I understand why they'd unite to help Tai after all. I accept why Youko passed the mission to En-ou and why he accepted it, etc. etc...
It's just... Like the lack of sword in Youko's hand can't explain to me her sudden "damsel in distress" behavior.
Just my personal opinion, of course.

[nightchaser]

Imbrue:
1. To saturate.
2. To stain.

I also thought he might have misspelled imbue (which is a more common word) but they have similar meanings...
1. To inspire or influence thoroughly; pervade: work imbued with the revolutionary spirit. See Synonyms at charge.
2. To permeate or saturate.
3. To stain or dye deeply.

Perhaps houki translated a word and it came out different from the meaning expected?


They knew Taiki los this horn because his kirin's aura was too week for a healthy kirin. This was starving his shirei and driving them mad. He was so "imbued" with evil at this point that the kirin couldn't get near him without feeling ill. Also, I believe on one of their trips to see Lady Genkun at mt. Ho she told them the symptoms they were seeing meant he had no horn.

[fragile_bloom]

Released Jouyu was Youko's will.
After Keiki rush into a room he complained about it.
and more, He said to Youko not to imbrue?his Shireis.

Strange, this is missing from the simplified Chinese text.
So, Beranda might be right, Joyuu might have gone for vacation afterall!
Sad to hear Keiki talk like that.

So,I guess that Keiki's Shirei was there.

Keiki's shireis were there, Youko thanked them for their help. The fact still remains the name of the Shirei who protected Youko was not mentioned. I do not recall Enki leaving Kimpa palace. En-Ou went back to En but Enki stayed.

Like Carmolita, I also don't know how Keiki learnt about the rebellion. He might have heard from his Shireis. I think it took too long for help to come. Where were all the human guards?

[nightchaser]

Where is Otyaku? I wish he would come back and finish translating for us He really wanted someone who understood Japanese to help him with translating. Maybe he is waiting for help before coming back?

By the way - a new page of Demon Child is up. That Takasato sure is out there... But I would love to buy one of his paintings

[bernhardt]

I am sorry to bump up something thou i been searchign desperately for some chinese version..

http://www.fuyun.cn/book/8551/html/6008.html

Was wondering if this chinese version accurate? Still a noob here but well... pardon me.. I can translate a little chinese too.

[nightchaser]

That would probably be a hard question to get an answer to. You can bet there are differences at least caused by translation (a word in one language doesn't have an equivalent in another language, or the meaning of a phrase doesn't translate well). I'd say go ahead and translate... and if you post it we won't complain

[fragile_bloom]

I really hope somebody can translate this book.

This is an important book in the series, it contains deep conversations and personal reflections that reveal more about the personalities, relationships, abilities and weaknesses of main characters including Taiki.

This book is complete because Taiki is rescued and returned to Tai. I liked the ending especially Enki's reply to Youko's statement. It shows the difference between En and Kei.

Kei Ou: "In order to help others, we must first be strong..."
En Taiho: "By helping others, we become strong"

[bernhardt]

I think i agree to En Taiho saying.. by helping others we become strong.

Heehee I will translate abit (Chinese to English) if anyone helps a part to be translated feel free to tell me.

About the shireis who helped kill the rebels i think its keiki's, will express my views later ..going out for lunch ;p

[bernhardt]

“延台辅不是留下使令给你了吗？为什么不抵抗呢？”


Think its keiki sherin who killed the rebels because he asked and demand that enki had left her sherin to use and why arn't she protecting?



说着，六太微微笑了起来。

“不好意思，为了保护你们两个派了使令暗中跟随。所以知晓了你们的行动。”


Enki told taiki and the lady general that he sent his sherins to protect the two of them secretly... and to monitor where are they...

[bernhardt]

The test make so much that it say enki left his sherin to secretly "follow".. both taiki and the general might not know.. but youko could have know. Did anythingm entioned up in the part where enki said somethign about leaving hsi sheri for youko?

[fragile_bloom]

From recollection, the part where we knew for sure Enki secretly left his shireis to protect Taiki and Risai happened later after this rebellion. I don't recall Enki saying he left shireis to protect Youko.

Shireis (not sure of spelling) cannot enter another country without the presence of the Taiho. In the case of this rebellion, Enki was in the Palace. En-Ou went back to En but Enki remained in Kei. I am not sure if En Taiho's shireis are allowed to physically intervene and save/protect the ruler of another country without the later's request and Enki approval. I know Enki has the right to protect Taiki because Taiki is technically registered as a citizen of En. Enki really cared a lot for Taiki, you can sense this throughout the book. He won't leave his friend who just came out of a coma unprotected.

Keiki insisted that Enki lent Youko Shireis but I sense that Youko did not know this. It is possible it was Enki's Shireis who saved Youko (if permitted) although if you think carefully, it could be Keiki's shireis, Keiki arrived at the scene first. How did he know unless his shireis were there.

Perhaps the Japanese version has more details. If it were true that certain statements by Keiki were ommitted in translation, this could make a lot of difference to the interpretation of Keiki's personality and his relationship to the queen.

Youko's relationship with Keiki deserves a closer look.

[bernhardt]

I think i might have to print the whole chuck of the chinese version and read... will post on it after i read that whole chapter...

[rico]

I am a great fan of the Juuni Kokki novels
Happy Vol. II on line otyaku. Is up an running

I am trying to get some people together to translate
The fate stay night game
Need to get members for the fate stay night project forum

Got problems to find people to translate Japanese to Englich
Got the fate scenario in Chinese if some one want to help translate the Fate scenario
A lot of people going to be happy

If you want to help you can go to the fate project forum
http://fatelatenight.proboards59.com/

[fantasydreamer2]

uh..... hard to follow so much convo since I just joined, I was wondering if there was a complete summary of what happens after Taiki comes back?? does he find gyousou?

[rosecream]

I've read most of the novels in chinese yet my chinese isn't that great so maybe i miss some things one question i have is about wizards they are immortal yet they can be killed so if they don't eat or drink for a long time they can still live but would something happen to their mind? or nothing?
I'm only asking this because the one armed general the one that asked for yokos help she's s wizard yet it seem that wouded arm and infection would kill her so it made me wonder just how strong is an immortal?

[rosecream]

I get that immortals can be killed but i was wondering if a lack of food and water can have some effect on their mental well-being since someone said that one armed general might be suffering from malnutrion and thats why she went to youko for help?
i also wonder about taiki are his yomas killed by the goddess that cured him she said they went wild and must be seperated from him so did the goddess kill them?
or is she waiting for taikis horn to grow back and he can get them?
also about youko acting different from the past novels i have to say that yes it seeems shes acting childish and all the things she learned went out the window but this kind of reminds me of when she regress back into fearing about everyones opinion when she was a new empress like she did when she was in japen so maybe the author is using the same plot device or is it part of youkos's nature actually all human nature to take 1 step forward and 2 steps back?

[rosecream]

oh so i read the past post they are being cleaned i would think that taiki would get them back afterall the female youma seems like his mother and has try to protect him the whole time he was in japen even though it was misguided but it would be pretty sad to just kill her off
Also in this novel the appearance of the goddess finally appears so it seems that the creation stories aren't all just fairy tales and it makes me wonder if these gods and goddess will play more of a role or explain what the link is between their world and ours but one can only hope afterall it seems the author is taking her sweet time

[rosecream]

i'm turning into a vampire can't sleep at night or maybe its just insomnia?
anyways this is my 3rd and last post for the day
Shoukei rudeness concerning youko i don't think its because she hates youko or is mocking her its simply becuase after she realized what she didn't do as a princess back when she could of still echos loudly in her mind and so she has decide, that now she is given another chance to stop another ruler from being a fool like her father granted her methods aren't very polished. But i know that she doesn't hate youko she wants youko to have a long rule and if that means critizing youko actions than so be it at least from her point of view.
And i think very far into the future maybe 100-300 years later youko will start to give the people more power like letting them elect officals and maybe starting a senate then she can have a constituional monarch yeah i think thats what will happen hopefully she doesn't give away too much power and end up hurting herself and everyone
And about how lax the palace it will change by the next book

[fragile_bloom]

I think rosecream have a point about Shoukei being defensive of Youko but from the way she speaks in the Chinese translations, it is possible to interprete otherwise. Personally, I think she is protective of Youko. She does not trust Youko's understanding of the world. Youko can't read and write the language, Shoukei drafted the official letter to Han-Ou. I don't know if she despises Youko.

In an animated series, we can see facial expressions and hear the tone of voice. This is why I hope the they animate this. Animating this book could be a challenge, there's not much action and no romance. A lot of deep conversations. Perhaps, they should animate Demon Child together with Shore At Twilight, that would make more sense and more action.

[nightchaser]

No. He's just not in this story is all. I guess we can assume he is in school in En.

[mindstalk]

"Shireis (not sure of spelling) cannot enter another country without the presence of the Taiho."

*Can* not or aren't supposed to? Because Youko was attacked by Kourin's shirei in En, and there wasn't any hint of Kourin being anywhere near.

There was talk in the thread of the hanjuu prejudice in Kei. In the second Youko novel, chapter 33 or 34, Rakushun says that Hou, Kou, Shun, and Kei are the kingdoms most hostile to, well, everything not a normal citizen: hanjuu, itinerants, kaikyaku. Other kingdoms will be more friendly to hanjuu, less so to the other two classes. Except for En, Sou, and Ren, which treat everyone nicely. Rakushun also says kaikyaku and zankyaku have fascinating things to say about papermaking, ceramics, and printing techniques. Not that I've noticed any signs of printing in the 12K. OTOH, they do know of Buddhism, which seems weird.

I know we all want to see more story, but this novel sounds weird enough that I wonder if Ono was getting bored, or forgetting her own backstory and worldbuilding, in which case perhaps better not to have more but inferior novels. "Away, to the fanficmobile!" Be nice to read a good translation, though. Hey, Eugene...

[pearlygate]

OT:
did you notice this thread is almost 1 year old. the last post before you was done in april 06.

[endah]

Another dead thread

It's weird to confront some two year olds opinions, but I'll do it anyway.

Tasogare no kishi, Akatsuki no Sora had too little of Tai-ou and Taiki in it. But at least it tells what happened to taiki before he disappeared from Tai. As for Risai I completely understand her, if Kei-Ou really sent troops to Tai then all officials in Kei were idiots and I dont think Risai really believed that would happen. Plus I'm with her, anything for Tai!

I didnt find anything suspicious about Gyousou's character. He is not 'kind' and 'caring' by normal standards. He is strong and ambitious, but he knows the Way and he is just. Ono sensei had clearly stated this. He's terrifying. He's determinded. For such a character it's probably either like him or dislike him.

I understand that someone said: "Knowing that he wasnt the emperor, he decided to leave the Oushi and Tai kingdom. That's bad/irresponsible coz he must know how Tai needed him." I could have agreed coz that's a nicely thought opinion.

However in the end, I think I understand his decision. Gyousou was, above all, honest to his ambitions but never want to be a low traitor. He had taken all measurements to build Tai during ten years of throne vacancy, and believed that he knew what it takes to be an emperor, he believed he was supposed to be chosen. That's why he went to Houzan on the first wave. But if he's not chosen, then it means that he's not the one for Tai. All his preparations and measurements for Tai was incorrect.

How would he act towards the new emperor? Knowing his own ambitions and self confidence, he knew he wouldnt accept another king easily. He would think he's better than the king, and might betray the new emperor because of that. Above all, he's disappointed and embarrassed that he's not the emperor. He recognized his own weakness and tendency, and chose to leave Tai before he got in the way of the new emperor. A more modest person would put this all behind and serve the new emperor anyway. but Gyousou's not this kind of person. He's simply not modest. I can't say I like modest people, really. Those who really have the skill are allowed to show off.

Gyousou fell because he was just and (though not obvious) kind. If he was a snake, lowlife like Asen (I even hate the sound of this guy's name) he might win over Asen. I often think like this, in real life 'combat', how could a good, stand by the rule person win against a completely evil, screw the rule person when they have more or less the same skill? That's just not possible, without some obvious devine help.

And no, in Kashou no Yume, toei, Gyousou didnt freeze taiki just to show him how hard Tai's winter was. It was Taiki who really wanted to go out. And Gyousou even put his robe on Taiki and hugged him so he wouldnt get cold, so sweet.

Judging from previous titles, the next novel would be:

Yuki no ame, murasaki no sora

or

Midori no Kuni, tsuki no hikari

Of couse I'm not making fun of JK. Just kidding a little...

[Jinx999]

Another dead thread

I understand that someone said: "Knowing that he wasnt the emperor, he decided to leave the Oushi and Tai kingdom. That's bad/irresponsible coz he must know how Tai needed him." I could have agreed coz that's a nicely thought opinion.

However in the end, I think I understand his decision. Gyousou was, above all, honest to his ambitions but never want to be a low traitor. He had taken all measurements to build Tai during ten years of throne vacancy, and believed that he knew what it takes to be an emperor, he believed he was supposed to be chosen. That's why he went to Houzan on the first wave. But if he's not chosen, then it means that he's not the one for Tai. All his preparations and measurements for Tai was incorrect.

How would he act towards the new emperor? Knowing his own ambitions and self confidence, he knew he wouldnt accept another king easily. He would think he's better than the king, and might betray the new emperor because of that. Above all, he's disappointed and embarrassed that he's not the emperor. He recognized his own weakness and tendency, and chose to leave Tai before he got in the way of the new emperor. A more modest person would put this all behind and serve the new emperor anyway. but Gyousou's not this kind of person. He's simply not modest. I can't say I like modest people, really. Those who really have the skill are allowed to show off.

That's an interesting theory about Gyousou that I hadn't run into before. It seems like it might be correct, but we don't know enough about him to tell.