The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

jmc wrote:She saw a play about the creation of the kingdoms and everyone around her took it for absolute fact.

Extract from episode 6

Youko - but there is a God right? You believe in it, don't you?
Rakushun - Who knows? I only think it's a legend but if there is one, I don't think it would listen to our prayers one by one.

and you have to think that to average person the play is just a play telling a story.. true or not. Everybody in this world knows how God created our earth but the are more then a handful that thinks it's bollocks

That just means that they don't believe in the other lesser gods. If he was after the kirin, he had to believe in Tentei.

Well if they believe in Tentei after watching the play they must believe in lesser Gods because in the play the little girl says Tentei created 5 gods
(from ep

Just being after the kirin does not make him believe in God... it proves otherwise. If he forced the kirin to make him Emperor then of course he can't be expecting god to not zap him with lightening or something if he didn't believe. Like the false Emperess he just believed if he had the Kirin then his is Emperor or enough to make people think that.

The goddess is in many episodes, or the maid is? I'm lost.

No I mean Youko's personal handmaiden is named after the Goddess Gyokuyou (the one that tells Keiki that he has to be kinda to Taiki). Remeber even though we have seen her in many episodes you never see her talking to someone average like a civilian etc.... the only people who knows for sure shes there is Kirins/Sages and possibly emperors... even Youko hasnt seen a God yet.

Yeah, but the babies do come. And they don't come if you don't pray for them. And, IIRC, someone who becomes emperor can't pray for a baby after they take the throne. All of those are things that couldn't be done without Tentei's power.

Yea but the debate isnt about whether he exist or not, it's about whether if every civilian believes it and lives by the fact that there is a higher power looking over their backs all the time.

Its very hard to compare here and there. Here, its basicaly a lull in that fewer and fewer really belive their religion, or go on to Athliesm or Agnostic. We dont have any concreate proof other then what people higher in the religion say, or in a book they wrote. And conisdering as time has gone on, we do not trust what the people in charge say more and more, its not that supprising.


But, in the 12K, they do belive what the emp says. But, more importantly, they have their beliefs reaffirmed every day with things actualy happening the way the religion says. You pray for a child, you get a child. here, you pray for a child, it makes no difference. The ruler is there, natrual desasters fade away, here it makes no difference.

Youko - but there is a God right? You believe in it, don't you?
Rakushun - Who knows? I only think it's a legend but if there is one, I don't think it would listen to our prayers one by one.

and you have to think that to average person the play is just a play telling a story.. true or not. Everybody in this world knows how God created our earth but the are more then a handful that thinks it's bollocks

I suppose we are just going to have to disagree on this. I'll give you the fact that Rakushun doesn't believe, but I don't see any evidence of widespread atheism or even vague belief on the part of ordinary people.

Just being after the kirin does not make him believe in God... it proves otherwise. If he forced the kirin to make him Emperor then of course he can't be expecting god to not zap him with lightening or something if he didn't believe. Like the false Emperess he just believed if he had the Kirin then his is Emperor or enough to make people think that.

I must not have made my point clearly. The guy who was after Taiki may or may not have believed in Tentei, but what I was trying to say is that it would be difficult for most people not to given the kirin, the ranka, the weird symmetry of the continent, the emperors that live forever, etc.

Yea but the debate isnt about whether he exist or not, it's about whether if every civilian believes it and lives by the fact that there is a higher power looking over their backs all the time.

Right. I'm saying that I don't see how they couldn't with all the supernatural stuff that goes on left and right.

What Supernatural Stuff? There is nothing remotly unusual going on. Horses that fly? of course horses could always fly. People that live to 500? What is odd about that?

See the Sun is really proof that God exists because Fusion does not give out light only heat but by gods power the sun gives out light as well.

What i am trying to say is that when you see something every day of your life it becomes normal and proof of nothing. Babies form a womans stumoch? Abomination!!!

It would not supprise me if not many people where devout. Remember Youko had a cerimony where she was getting rid of Youma in the third arc and she said it did nothing. People try to kidnap the kirin and set them self up as empress/emperor when the heavens surley would not agree. People hunt others like animals and are not punished.

Tentie would be there but not many people would have any real cause or proof to belive in him.

MegaDuck wrote:People that live to 500? What is odd about that?

Normal people don't. The Emperors and Empresses do. And the only difference between an emperor and a normal person is that one's been ordained by Tentei.

jmc wrote:

You have to remeber that to the average civilian don't actually believe in Tentei just like us, for them it's not something that is completely definate.

Where did you see that? I know Rakushun makes light of the idea of praying to pass an exam, but that isn't the same thing as not believing in Tentei, it's just the abscence of superstition. Remember when Youko was with the travelling performers? She saw a play about the creation of the kingdoms and everyone around her took it for absolute fact.

It's like the saying: God help those who help themself. Praying for rain is one thing (you don't have control over weather), praying to do well on the exam is another (you can study).