The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

[SPOILER WARNING]




From what I have watched in the anime and read in the novels [well...the english translated arcs so far, anyway...] I understand no one really knows what happened to Gyousou or Taiki, right?

Through what was translated, Taiki was told that Gyousou supposedly died in the hands of enemies who lured him into battle and assassinated him, or something more or less along those lines. The one who told Taiki this was someone that was said he at least trusted, and I heard rumors that it might have been someone from the Toei arc? Is this true? To my understanding, the mysterious stranger was informing Taiki on how Gyousou was doing with certain tensions between a group of rebels in Tai, but I'm not too sure on who they were exactly. The stranger then striked at Taiki's kirin horn after telling him Gyousou had died.

First, why would he do that? If this person was even someone living in the Tai Kingdom, most likely if Gyousou had really died, he would count on Taiki to choose the new ruler, but he cut off his horn instead. In another arc, Tasogare no Kishin - Akatsuki no Sora, Youko (now the empress of Kei) thinks it might have been a rebellion in the Tai Kingdom led by people seeking to overthrow the throne and ascend to it themselves; but then, even if someone wanted to make themselves emperor or empress against the Heaven's will, for the people of Tai to believe him/her wouldn't the Taiho need to be there in order to prove that?

For example, in the beginning of the anime series of Juuni Kokuki (in the first arc) Jyoei decided that she wanted to become Kei Kingdom's ruler, although the Heaven's and Keiki had not rightfully selected her; so Jyoei enlisted King Kou's help, and sealed Keiki to be by her side so as to prove to the people of Kei she was in fact the true ruler.

If this same logic is true, and if in fact a fake ruler overthrew Gyousou, in order to get the people of Tai to believe him, wouldn't Taiki need to be there? Why slash his horn off, and possibly try to kill him? And if that even happened, why isn't this imposter claiming his/her right to Tai's throne trying to take control over the kingdom?

Well, for one thing, we know Taiki isn't dead; he appears back in Hourai several times. Does anyone happen to know if there is anything connected with his Grandmother? Why did he suddenly return just as his Japanese Grandmother's funeral was held?

Furthermore, Taiki came back to Japan with no clothes on and a gash at the top of his forhead where his horn used to be. Taiho presumably have no clothing on when in kirin form, right? So, when Taiki somehow came back to Japan was he traveling while as a kirin? Maybe, when that mysterious stranger attacked him, Taiki caused a shoku? Is that how he ended up back in Japan?

But I just don't get Taiki after he returned from Tai; he doesn't remember anything, although he remembers Japan when first pulled into the world of Juuni Kokuki by Sanshi. Were Taiki's memories cut off along with his kirin horn?

However, what was the deal with all those bad things happening around Taiki, especially to those who weren't particularly nice to him, whenever they were around Taiki? And also, in the anime, Sugimoto comes to talk to Taiki (know known as Takasato Kaname in Japan - I think ) about how they were both "spirited away". As she was leaving his house, Sugimoto was confronted by a dark shadow questioning her on whether she was a enemy of 'our' king? The dark shadow took the form of something that resembled a youma with long hair and a thick tail; someone or something more like Sanshi? But why did it vanish as Sugimoto claimed she was a friend of the empress of Kei? Was it Taiki's nyokai or shirei, still protecting him although he may not remember anything? But then, before that Sugimoto comes across him in the street; Taiki tells her to leave him alone, and just as she tries to say something back, Sugimoto turns around and Taiki's already dissapeared? He couldn't have run that fast, could he? There were no sound effects imitating footsteps or anything... And later, we see Taiki, or hear his voice and actually see his feet, talking to someone else with black fur and claws on its feet; it definantly wasn't Sanshi, since her feet are that of a spotted leopard, so is it a youma or his shirei? If it were Taiki's shirei, then wouldn't that mean he hadn't actually forgotten about everything that happened in the world of Juuni Kokuki?And how could it plainly be a youma; they can't talk, can they?

BTW : Sorry I keep talking, and talking ... but this is just to confusing to keep locked up; it's my first post, , so I have a lot of questions to ask ...

And Gyousou, what about him; we know he didn't die because the signs of an ruler's decline haven't appeared : such as the Hakuchi giving it's last cry when an emperor or empress has died. So he's alive, but why does no one know where he is; why can't Enki or anyone else find him?

And what became of Sanshi? When Taiki was first lost, she would repeatedly search for him and now nothing is heard of poor Sanshi anymore. In the novel translations, she was running to Taiki just as the stranger slashed off his horn; if Taiki did cause a shoku, did Sanshi get pulled in as well? But then, she would have been in Japan right?

... There's so much speculation, please forgive me for posting for so long but again, it can't be helped ... *sigh *

[ Correct me if I'm wrong on ANYTHING, I posted this thread from memory so some of the re-occurances could have been a little bit off what really did happen ... ]

Wow long post i shall answer what i think i know.

From what I have watched in the anime and read in the novels [well...the english translated arcs so far, anyway...] I understand no one really knows what happened to Gyousou or Taiki, right?

Risai might have a clue when she asks Youko for help but currently Taiki is in Japan and Gyousou is MIA.

The one who told Taiki this was someone that was said he at least trusted, and I heard rumors that it might have been someone from the Toei arc? Is this true?

The identity of the person who wacked Taiki with a sword is currently unkown, it could be someone from Toei and probably is however no one knows for sure.

To my understanding, the mysterious stranger was informing Taiki on how Gyousou was doing with certain tensions between a group of rebels in Tai, but I'm not too sure on who they were exactly. The stranger then striked at Taiki's kirin horn after telling him Gyousou had died.

I think it was a set up. No one knows if they where real "Rebels" or just part of a plot in the palace.

If this same logic is true, and if in fact a fake ruler overthrew Gyousou, in order to get the people of Tai to believe him, wouldn't Taiki need to be there? Why slash his horn off, and possibly try to kill him?

I have a possible theory on this. Lets call sword slasher guy Mr. X (courny i know it could have been X-san). Maybe X-san hates Gyousou. So he captures Gyousou and kills Taiki. He then tells Gyousou that Taiki is dead and Gyousou has less then a year to know his inpending death and mourn over cute little taiki who he failed to protect. Seems like it would be really harsh. As to why kill taiki and not try to control him maybe he is trying to get a new kirin that he can convince/capture to make himself ruler. Remember whats his name that tried to capture Taiki on mount Hou understood nothing about how someone became emporer. Suppose it was him who attacked taiki (unlikely Taiki trusted that person) he could then think to kill taiki in revenge for not picking him and wait for the next kirin, capture that one and be the rightfull emporer. It would not work but he only have to THINK it would work to do it.

And if that even happened, why isn't this imposter claiming his/her right to Tai's throne trying to take control over the kingdom?

Well first of all we do not know if there is a false emperror in Tai, news from tai is a little shall we say disrupted atm. So he could be trying to be a false emp. or he could have set himself up as regent in the hopes the next kirin would choose him.

Well, for one thing, we know Taiki isn't dead; he appears back in Hourai several times. Does anyone happen to know if there is anything connected with his Grandmother? Why did he suddenly return just as his Japanese Grandmother's funeral was held?

I would bet on coincedince or telling us the person who tormented him is dead. I do not think this grandmother is connected to anything in the 12k.

Furthermore, Taiki came back to Japan with no clothes on and a gash at the top of his forhead where his horn used to be. Taiho presumably have no clothing on when in kirin form, right? So, when Taiki somehow came back to Japan was he traveling while as a kirin? Maybe, when that mysterious stranger attacked him, Taiki caused a shoku? Is that how he ended up back in Japan?

Thats how i read the book yes.

But I just don't get Taiki after he returned from Tai; he doesn't remember anything, although he remembers Japan when first pulled into the world of Juuni Kokuki by Sanshi. Were Taiki's memories cut off along with his kirin horn?

If i remember it said the sword hit the horn and gashed it, i do not remember it being cut off. So i think he has his horn but it is damaged. One theory is that the horn cut caused memeory damage, another is that in the horror of being betrayed and thinking his emp died (Remember Taiki does not know he has a link to the emp, he should feel Instantly when the emp dies, Hourin did, Taiki did not think Gyousou died till X-san told him, therefor i think Gyousou is still alive.) That sudden shock horror and loss caused stress based amnesia, ie he blocked out all the pain by forgetting the 12k compleatly.

However, what was the deal with all those bad things happening around Taiki, especially to those who weren't particularly nice to him, whenever they were around Taiki? And also, in the anime, Sugimoto comes to talk to Taiki (know known as Takasato Kaname in Japan - I think ) about how they were both "spirited away". As she was leaving his house, Sugimoto was confronted by a dark shadow questioning her on whether she was a enemy of 'our' king? The dark shadow took the form of something that resembled a youma with long hair and a thick tail; someone or something more like Sanshi? But why did it vanish as Sugimoto claimed she was a friend of the empress of Kei? Was it Taiki's nyokai or shirei, still protecting him although he may not remember anything? But then, before that Sugimoto comes across him in the street; Taiki tells her to leave him alone, and just as she tries to say something back, Sugimoto turns around and Taiki's already dissapeared? He couldn't have run that fast, could he? There were no sound effects imitating footsteps or anything... And later, we see Taiki, or hear his voice and actually see his feet, talking to someone else with black fur and claws on its feet; it definantly wasn't Sanshi, since her feet are that of a spotted leopard, so is it a youma or his shirei? If it were Taiki's shirei, then wouldn't that mean he hadn't actually forgotten about everything that happened in the world of Juuni Kokuki?And how could it plainly be a youma; they can't talk, can they?

Ok to answer the last part first, Sugimoto sees Sanshi in shadow still protecting him even though he has no memory. Remember Keiki was a friend of Taiki so when Sugimoto said she was a friend of Keiki's empress it gave a good reason that Sanshi understood for her to be around taiki. (more on this in a sec)

The thing with black fur and claws is probably is probably taikis dog Shirei.

I have no idea how Taiki disappreared it might have just been a spooky effect.

Shirei can talk remember keiki's did so several times.

Taiki either thinks he is halucinating when he sees his shirei or sanshi or he is activly trying to ignore them if it is stress based amnesia.

Or the first question that i skiped, what happend with all the bad things around Taiki, that is Sanshi's fault. Remeber to sanshi Takasato Kaname is still a kirin and a taiho. As far as she is concered he is REALLY high ranked and deserves respect. She is wacking anyone that does not show proper respect/threatening her Taiho. For comparison imagine someone walking into mount hou or the tai palace and bullying or manhandeling taiki. Imagine how the sages or Gyousou would react, violently, Youka would yell how rude and attack and Gyousou would have them executed. Sanshi is doing the same thing in japan, anyone who manhandels taiki like the bullys or trieds to put themselves above him (dominate) like taikis teacher get killed. (Taikis teacher was NOT trying to dominate a kirin but trying to be a role modle and leader for a confused kid and telling him what to do, but to sanshi NO ONE but Gyousou can tell taiki what to do, anyone that tried is usurping the emporers power and must be killed) People that are just mean to Taiki get warnings, ie things breaking, telling them to be more polite to someone that is above them.

We are basicaly getting a major culture clash between the 12k because not only are the japaness not aware of kirin he would have no rank if they where. Sanshi might also be a little unstable and changed by taiki having amnesia and basicaly living in exile.

BTW : Sorry I keep talking, and talking ... but this is just to confusing to keep locked up; it's my first post, , so I have a lot of questions to ask ...

And i shall answer them ALL! Or the ones that have answers

And Gyousou, what about him; we know he didn't die because the signs of an ruler's decline haven't appeared : such as the Hakuchi giving it's last cry when an emperor or empress has died. So he's alive, but why does no one know where he is; why can't Enki or anyone else find him?

Good question, hmmmmm, I think everyone is looking for Taiki actually, that and the fact it would be hard for En-ou to go to all the lords of Tai and ask them to open their dungeons to fine Tai-ou. If Gyousou is alive he is probably imprisioned in Tai where no other emporer has athority, so they need either him or Taiki to request help before they can send troops or anything in. Therefore they need to find Taiki.

And what became of Sanshi? When Taiki was first lost, she would repeatedly search for him and now nothing is heard of poor Sanshi anymore. In the novel translations, she was running to Taiki just as the stranger slashed off his horn; if Taiki did cause a shoku, did Sanshi get pulled in as well? But then, she would have been in Japan right?

I answered this erlier, she is busy being a homicidal maniac in japan trying to protect taiki.

... There's so much speculation, please forgive me for posting for so long but again, it can't be helped ... *sigh *

NP please forgive me for replying so long.

Furthermore, why does Taiki begin to age, even though he had already sworn eternal loyalty to Gyousou and recieved Tentei's blessing on Mt. Hou; shouldn't he have reached adult kirin form by then and stopped growing? Does it have something to do with when 'X-san' ... [ ] ... cut a deep gash on Taiki's kirin horn?

Furthermore, why does Taiki begin to age, even though he had already sworn eternal loyalty to Gyousou and recieved Tentei's blessing on Mt. Hou; shouldn't he have reached adult kirin form by then and stopped growing? Does it have something to do with when 'X-san' ... [ ] ... cut a deep gash on Taiki's kirin horn?

If you read Toei you will find a line where you see Gyousou tell Taiki that his only job is to grow up. It can be assumed from this line that Taiki is NOT a mature kirin after all. He is still a fledgeling, after all how horrible would it be to be stuck at 6 for all eternity.

Another theory is that taikis apperance is a shell in japan and that he has not really grown. For a refute to that one i offer this image.


The man in the bed is supposidly Taiki and the woman next to him Youko. If you think she looks a little odd in the postcard version compared to the anime version You can compare the Woman next to the bed to a woman we KNOW is youko in this picure.


As for the man on the bed this image does not match any of the other charecters in the series, it also looks like the anime adult taiki (though i do not remember the adult taiki looking that HOT )

Therefor i belive that Taiki had not finished growing when he picked Gyousou and then lost his memory and has sence grown up in japan. They better get him back to the 12k quick or he will STOP ageing in japan. won't that be a supprise.

The final theory which i do not agree with is that taiki is a "Fallen Kirin" one who has betrayed his dutys and does not get imortality or his powers till he takes them back up. This i did not agree with as i do not think a kirin COULD fall and if it did it should get sick with the shuditsou not lose powers.

*phew* ... well, that certainly clears a few up ... thanks a lot! But sadly, I still have one more question left [ at least for this thread ] :

When Sugimoto kept confronting Taiki back in Japan because they were both "spirited away", why did Taiki tell Sugimoto that she shouldn't see him anymore? Later, Sugimoto turned around to reply to Taiki but he had suddenly vanished ... If he did indeed loose his mystical kirin powers when X-san cut a gash in Taiki's horn, how is he able to still talk to his shirei [ which must have been summoned by none other than Taiki himself ] and just dissapear like that? Why would he want Sugimoto to stop seeing him?

Also when Sugimoto kept coming to him, Taiki told her that he kept remembering a strange, distant place [ a.k.a the world of Juuni Kokuki ]where he felt like he belonged to; and, didn't keep up acertain 'promise'? Is this the promise of a kirin swearing eternal loyalty to its ruler, or something else? Like maybe the resentment of himself not being able to save Gyousou from dyeing, or so he may think?

When Sugimoto kept confronting Taiki back in Japan because they were both "spirited away", why did Taiki tell Sugimoto that she shouldn't see him anymore?

Why would he want Sugimoto to stop seeing him?

Because everyone around him gets hurt. And he being a kirin does not like to see people get hurt, so he tell her to stay away. Remember he does not know why people around him get hurt, not really, because if he knew he would also know about the 12k.

If he did indeed loose his mystical kirin powers when X-san cut a gash in Taiki's horn, how is he able to still talk to his shirei [ which must have been summoned by none other than Taiki himself ] and just dissapear like that?

Who said he lost his powers? What he lost was his memory of the 12k. If he can not remember his powers he can not use them. His inherent powers such as talking and comanding his sheri should not have been effected, he does not activate them they just are. The same thing goes with his immortality and desise resistance, he still has them and they still function because they do not rely on his memory.

I rewatched the part where he just vanishes. The growl you hear is the dog Sheiri (i do not remember his name) it is possible that Takasato just walks away and you do not here the footsteps in the sound. Also remember thet that scean was added to the anime, it is possible it was just added for dramatic effect and to make him look spooky and have the watchers and sugimoto ask "What is he?" It might not have a specific answer to it.

Is this the promise of a kirin swearing eternal loyalty to its ruler, or something else? Like maybe the resentment of himself not being able to save Gyousou from dyeing, or so he may think?

Most probably all of the above. The promise he forgot was his Kirin duty and all that it implied. Loyalty to the ruler, protecting the people, ect. he abandoned all of it so the promise he did not keep was probably his duty there.

More specificaly remember the Kirins plege.

"I swear never to desert my post before your throne, and never to disobey your orders. I pledge my loyalty to you."

I would say that this is the specific promise that they were refureing to.

The one who told Taiki this was someone that was said he at least trusted, and I heard rumors that it might have been someone from the Toei arc? Is this true?

The identity of the person who wacked Taiki with a sword is currently unkown, it could be someone from Toei and probably is however no one knows for sure.

My guess is that it was Rohaku, the iminter of military afairs in Tai (aka the pumpkin) who really wanted to be chosen as King.

Wow, where did you get that idea?? Is it in the manga?? The anime didn't show anything about why Taiki disappear or who cut off his horn, unless I missed it somehow... It suprise me when the story of Tai end so soon. Unless that's the end of the story of Tai...

I was looking for the manga but somehow it's really hard to find. Any idea where?

There isn't a manga, that's probably why you're having trouble. There are several novels however. I couldn't say where to get them, but if you search the forums a bit I'm sure you can find out. Of course you'll have to be skilled in reading Japanese for them to be any good. I wish I could read Japanese...

Here you go a quick link to all your JK reading needs.

http://people.cornell.edu/pages/kf49/Tw ... s/menu.htm

Mostly translated. You can read most of it then get to read it page by page every 4 days.

Lucky_Monkey wrote:Wow, where did you get that idea?? Is it in the manga?? The anime didn't show anything about why Taiki disappear or who cut off his horn, unless I missed it somehow... It suprise me when the story of Tai end so soon. Unless that's the end of the story of Tai...

I was looking for the manga but somehow it's really hard to find. Any idea where?

It's a guess, based on a few observations, based on both the plot and the feel of the anime. First of all, I believe someone mentioned that it was a character that appeared in the second anime story arc.

From the Novel translations, it is a meneber of the Tai court who Taiki trusted, but was secretly bitter that Gynosoku had been chosen as emperor. Rohaku fits the bill. He really wanted to be chosen as king.

In the anime, I noticed a severe lack of characters who didn't serve a significant purpose and weren't reused in annother part. For example, one of the sages on mount Hou appeared there when Enki was a child, as a newbie from En, and showed Enki what the condition of En was. She later reappeared when Taiki was there, but this time as a senior and mature sage. There was also a total lack of comic relief in the series.

Therefore, when a character, who seems to surve no propose apart from comic relief, appeared, I got suspicious.

As for who chopped Taikis horn (this is shown in the Novels there is no JK manga) for the people on screen it is either The Pumpkin or the Military guy who tried to capture taiki.

example, one of the sages on mount Hou appeared there when Enki was a child, as a newbie from En, and showed Enki what the condition of En was. She later reappeared when Taiki was there, but this time as a senior and mature sage.

The sage you speak of is Lady Tai-Ei. She was not the one who showed Enki the distruction of En. I think the reason she was in was to add a reoccuring charecter and a little continuality to the series like Kei-Kei. He was shown at the begining of the Tai arc with his sister and he does not come back till the Rebellion arc.

I loved when Taiki asked Tai-Ei how old she was and she laughed. If you think about it she was a new sage in the En arc witch took place 500 YEARS before the Tai and Kei arcs so she is about 520 years old. Older then the Emp of En or about the same age. On that note how old is Gyousou the leader of the sages? Anchient. Older then 500 years an possibly as old as the 12k.

MegaDuck wrote:As for who chopped Taikis horn (this is shown in the Novels there is no JK manga) for the people on screen it is either The Pumpkin or the Military guy who tried to capture taiki.

For the life of me, I can't remember where I read it, but the source was quite reliable. Apparently, the 'traitor' was neither 'The Pumpkin' or 'The Military Guy'.

Spoiler
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If memory serves me correctly, the traitor was Asen.
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End of spoiler

MegaDuck wrote: Another theory is that taikis apperance is a shell in japan and that he has not really grown. For a refute to that one i offer this image.
--Image--

The man in the bed is supposidly Taiki and the woman next to him Youko.

Yes, the pictures from the postcards come from the illustrations for the books in the White Heart edition (and yes, that is Taiki and Youko in the "Tasogare no Kishi, Akatsuki no Sora" arc). The reason they look different is that the other illustration comes from the first novel (1992) and this one is the last novel published (2001). Yamada's art had changed quite a bit... ^^;

Ahiru

If this same logic is true, and if in fact a fake ruler overthrew Gyousou, in order to get the people of Tai to believe him, wouldn't Taiki need to be there? Why slash his horn off, and possibly try to kill him?

The impression I got was that it was supposed to be an execution. When the emperor of Hou(? it's been a while) was executed, so was his kirin, for choosing him and making the people suffer. That doesn't necessarily make sense, since the kirin is simply picking whoever the heavens mandate, but the normal people may not see that. If they were trying to do something to Taiki, they might have expected either to kill him or miss when he ran off. Instead, he wasn't fast enough and was injured. That's a good thing for a false emperor, I guess, since there's no kirin to pop up with a real emperor, but they probably didn't count on being stuck without a kirin for the rest of Taiki's life, or until he regains his memory and returns.

You know Garamir that all sounds plausible.

However i am begining to doubt that Mr. X (or Ansen or whoever) was killing Taiki and Gyousou because he wanted to be a false emperor. Rereading the lines in the book.

http://people.cornell.edu/pages/kf49/an ... S_0_03.htm

"Taiki suddenly grew upset. He finally noticed the unprecedented terror that emanated from that person.

Gyousou is dead.”
The person replied. Taiki subconsciously commanded his legs to retreat, but they felt numb and cold.

“...Liar”
The person raised his sword above his head. Taiki gaped up with widened eyes, standing stiff as a rod as his whole body froze. He couldn’t even utter a word.

“Consider it your misfortune that you have only two shirei.”
The raised sword that shone white like ice slashed down smoothly like water flow.
“...Blame yourself for choosing Gyousou.”

Why is there terror eminating from the person who is going to whack taiki with a sword? If this where part of some long drawn out plot he should be feeling agression or rage or satisfaction that his plot is working/worked, why terror? Also Mr. X seems to be trying to shift blame for what is happening away from himself on to taiki.

One thing i think is possible that Mr. X who set the entire thing up is NOT the person who wacked Taiki on the horn. It was some underling acting on Mr. X's orders who wacked taiki.

All and all i think it is somewhat more complicated then simply some guy plotting to trap the emp and then going after the Kirin. There is something in my mind telling me that this has a more complicated back plot.

Actually, when the emperor of Hou was killed, his kirin did not die. I assumed the Kei State Leader pretend to kill Hourin since there is no new Houka (ranka of Hou) at Mt. Ho. There is only Kouka (ranka of Kou) at Mt. Ho since Kourin was killed by her own emperor.

MegaDuck wrote: I answered this erlier, she is busy being a homicidal maniac in japan trying to protect taiki.

paiseh... i want to know where did you get this information... i didn't watch the complete anime and only read the episode guide.. but a guide is still a guide and it doesn't give COMPLETE information... sorry... and thankz...

I don't think there's any rule about only one ranka being able to grow at a time. The anime never mentions such a rule, and there is one conversation that wouldn't make sense if such a rule existed. There is at one point a reference to the fact that there is currently only one ranka on the tree and that therefore Taiki must still be alive. Well, if there were a rule that there could never be more than one ranka, then there currently being only one ranka wouldn't prove anything. (Besides, isn't that why the tree has twelve branches - one for each kingdom. It should be able to support kirin rankas for all of them.)

There is no ranka for Hou because Houki has already been born. Hourin was killed three years before the main action of the series, and at one point there's a reference to the young Houki who was born to replace her. (I don't remember the quote exactly, but it was rather vague. A single line which said something to the effect that Houki has been born but is not at Mt. Hou now. There's no mention of where he is. Maybe that's in the novels - I don't know.) Maybe tomorrow I could look up where that quote occurs and get it more exactly. I don't have time to search for it now.

Niwashi

Yes, that's the conversation. I found the quote now, and it sounds like Houki has been born but is now missing. It's in episode 27, from the queen of Kyou. Here's all that's said about him:

Because Mt. Hou has no kirin for Hou, no one knows when a new ruler will ascend the throne. ... The only ranka that's growing at Mt. Hou now is the kirin of Kou. There's no sign of Houki, who has supposedly been born already.

I suppose you could argue that maybe she's wrong. She did add that "supposedly" in there. But it doesn't make any sense to just assume she's wrong about Houki having been born already unless there were something in the show to suggest that she's wrong. Since I can't find any other reference about it one way or another, I'm going to assume she's right. Houki has been born, but there's no sign of where he is now.

There's clearly reference here to another story that's not included in the show. I don't know whether the story of the new kirin of Hou was included in any of the novels, or if it was planned but then never written. It sounds rather like we might have another taika kirin.

carmolita wrote:No I don't think queen Kyo is wrong-They already no the next kirin is Houki and he hasn't been born yet because the ranka growning now is for kO.

If you're saying he hasn't been born yet than you are saying Kyou-Ou is wrong, since she directly stated that he has been born already. The only ranka is for Kou because Houki is still alive. (That's how they know missing kirin are alive - the same as with Taiki. If Houki were dead, there would be another ranka.)

carmolita wrote:I think to that kirin seem to be born in the order they died and Ho died after Ko.

Hourin died three years before Kourin. Houki hasn't died yet.

carmolita wrote:If houki was really missing I'm sure all of the other kirin would be looking for him to and not just Taiki.

The fact that people are searching for Taiki certainly doesn't suggest that nobody is searching for Houki. Risai (who is a general from TAI) instigates a search for Taiki because he and Tai-Ou are the ones she's interested in. I'm sure there are people searching for the missing Houki as well. We just happen to know more about the search for Taiki because that story has been written already.

Niwashi2 wrote:Yes, that's the conversation. I found the quote now, and it sounds like Houki has been born but is now missing. It's in episode 27, from the queen of Kyou. Here's all that's said about him:

Because Mt. Hou has no kirin for Hou, no one knows when a new ruler will ascend the throne. ... The only ranka that's growing at Mt. Hou now is the kirin of Kou. There's no sign of Houki, who has supposedly been born already.

I know in the anime, Kyo-o said something along that line, but I don't seem to recall her saying that Ho-ki "was supposedly been born already." Just saw that episode again and the English subtitles say, and I quote:

Kei State's leader must sustain Ho because they don't have a Kirin.... I can't tell Ho's diplomat that their Kirin is not in Mt Ho and that I don't know when they will have the new king.... There's only a new Kirin's egg for for Ko kingdom in Mt Ho and not for Ho. You don't know when they will have a new king.

Perhaps this translation is not full or is full of errors (which is a common thing for translated animes) or the anime itself did not say what was said in the novel. Whatever it is, based on the above substitles, what I can safely say is that neither Ho's Ranka nor Ho's Kirin in on Mt Ho at the moment. However, since Ho-rin died nearly 2 years before Sonsho was sent to Kyo Kingdom, Ho's Ranka not being there anymore could also mean that it had appeared but is missing, as what had happened to Taiki and Enki. Which brings us back to square one, coz at the moment, there is just not enough evidence to conclude if Ho's Kirin is missing or if it never appeared at all.

MegaDuck wrote:

Furthermore, why does Taiki begin to age, even though he had already sworn eternal loyalty to Gyousou and recieved Tentei's blessing on Mt. Hou; shouldn't he have reached adult kirin form by then and stopped growing? Does it have something to do with when 'X-san' ... [ ] ... cut a deep gash on Taiki's kirin horn?

If you read Toei you will find a line where you see Gyousou tell Taiki that his only job is to grow up. It can be assumed from this line that Taiki is NOT a mature kirin after all. He is still a fledgeling, after all how horrible would it be to be stuck at 6 for all eternity.

Another theory is that taikis apperance is a shell in japan and that he has not really grown. For a refute to that one i offer this image.

The man in the bed is supposidly Taiki and the woman next to him Youko. If you think she looks a little odd in the postcard version compared to the anime version You can compare the Woman next to the bed to a woman we KNOW is youko in this picure.

As for the man on the bed this image does not match any of the other charecters in the series, it also looks like the anime adult taiki (though i do not remember the adult taiki looking that HOT )

Therefor i belive that Taiki had not finished growing when he picked Gyousou and then lost his memory and has sence grown up in japan. They better get him back to the 12k quick or he will STOP ageing in japan. won't that be a supprise.

The final theory which i do not agree with is that taiki is a "Fallen Kirin" one who has betrayed his dutys and does not get imortality or his powers till he takes them back up. This i did not agree with as i do not think a kirin COULD fall and if it did it should get sick with the shuditsou not lose powers.

Actually, when Taiki lost his horn, he is no longer a kirin. He lost his immortality and grew up. In the novel, En-ou had to go to Hourai to appoint Taiki as Taishi so as to give him immortality, as only immortal can cross the Empty Sea.

carmolita wrote:On disk 4/5 enki tells youko that a kirin stops growing when he/she reaches adulthood...(as you notice keiki looks older than enki) so enki/rokuta reached adulthood sooner than keiki so said youko...taiki has not reached adulthood yet thats why his job is to just grow up..

hmm i agree with yume li. I think the kirin reaches adulthood direct after they choose emperor. Gyousou said taiki to grow up, i think what he means is to learn about politics, 12kingdoms land since taiki is taika.