The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

I'm confused - when Youko and Rakashun are talking about Tentei she asks him why he does pray to him to pass exams. It sounded like she did back in Tokyo. So is Tentei a real god or made up for the 12-kingdoms books?

My dictionary translates Tentei (天帝) as "God, Creator, Heavenly King". (The kanji mean "heaven" and "emperor" respectively.) I'm not familiar enough with Eastern religions to say whether it's a word for "god" or the name of a god, but it isn't limited to the Juuni Kokki world. Maybe someone here can give a more specific answer.

Niwashi

The whole idea of Tentei in Juuni Kokki is based heavily on the Chinese idea of a "mandate of heaven." Emperors were chosen by the "mandate of heaven" and the condition of the country and people were reflections of the emperor's own choices. If the emperor made bad choices, the mandate of heaven would leave him and choose another. I think that "tentei" was the closest Japanese approximation, but I'm not entirely sure.

I always thought it meant fate or destiny

It doesn't really mean "fate" or "destiny".....

Let's put it this way:

"mandate of heaven" = heaven's will = approx fate or destiny (although fate and destiny do not feel as if they are God's will as much as "madate of heaven" and "heaven's will" do)
- heaven in Chinese religion refers more to the God/s and celestial beings so it can refer to the place where they reside, or the group of beings who reside in heaven

"tentei" = God, Creator, Heavenly King
- Chinese religion/legend? has it that there is one who rules the celestial court (i.e. heaven)
- This being is the Tentei, or the emperor of the celestial court. He rules all the other Gods/immortals/deities much like how mortal Emperor/Kings rule their court
- The 12kokki Tentei should also be referring to a similar being
- To draw a parallel, perhaps it is ok to say that Tentei is a rough equivalent of Zeus?

In the novels about Taiki's return to the 12 kingdoms, there were sections where Risai, Yuoko and Rokuta all pondered about the existence and the actual "form" of the Tentei, the heavens and the immortals.

To answer Nightchaser's original question:

I would say both yes and no.
Yes, Tentei is a real god because the kanji used for it is an actual phrase/name used in Chinese religion/legend
No, Tentei is made up for the 12 kingdoms because the word "Tentei" essentially means "God". It is just the Chinese-style reference to God. Chinese-style does not mean it IS referring to the same thing....

Hope I've made a logical argument of all this....=x Is a bit difficult to put into words...

nightchaser wrote:I'm confused - when Youko and Rakashun are talking about Tentei she asks him why he does pray to him to pass exams. It sounded like she did back in Tokyo. So is Tentei a real god or made up for the 12-kingdoms books?

She is refering to the very common practice of Japanese schoolchildren praying at shrines and buying charms to bring them luck during their exams. It turns up in a lot of school based Anime. There is a lot of it in Azumanga Daioh, for example.

Rakushun's response is based on the fact that this is not part of the duties of the gods of the Twelve Kingdoms. The gods of the Twelve Kingdoms are known to exist (but Rakushun does have doubts), but they have specific roles, which do not include helping people with their exams. He appears to be acting as you would if somone asked why you didn't pray to the sun or moon for luck. Because there is no mystery about the gods of the twelve kingdoms, there isn't much of what we'd call religious belief.

well for that i would think she was using a metaphor for what you should ask this "tentei". Like she just used praying to god for passing an exam as a example to show show how people in wa use god for. and i dont think using chinese methology is a good way to describe the world of 12 kingdoms. Certainly it sounds more of chinese than japanese. However in china there are many different relegions and people worship many different gods. Well there isnt really a religion that undermines all this or a proper belief like in christianity. Such as Journey to the West it is not this "surpreame" god that sends them on a journey. and the Monkey King does destroy most of heaven =P. Well in Journey to the West you would come across many gods that you would find in CHinese literature and methology (im just using Journey to the west a example). However as i know in Japan they dont pray to that many gods. Sure there are lots of Shrines dedecated to different Gods or people or emporers and war heros but they believe that the emporer is Chosen by god and is the Son of God. Which is the same as the Emporer in China (but dont forget Japan used to be a tribute country of China until they proclaimed that their emperor is equal to the chinese emporer..). some ceromonies mentioned in the 12 kingdoms do seem like its refering to chinese culture of praying to the alter of heaven and the alter of earth and different parts of the year but since the auther is japanese she undermines many gods that are mentioned in chinese literture and mythology and idea of there being a Heavenly God (tentei) is more of a japanese point of view.