The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

Uhhh, I'm not sure if this counts as a spoiler request or not.. what's the rules here about spoiling, anyway...


Could someone clarify these for me?

Kirin and their charges are supposed to be immortal, right... and never-aging. But when we see Yoko's predecessor, she appears to have aged from the beginning of her tenure to her decline! I don't remember if there's another instance of emperors or an immortal aging, but that has bugged me if the translation about them not aging is correct. Does it have something to do with Shitsudo, perhaps?

En-Ou is a taika, yet his appearance didn't "wash away" when he returned to 12k. We assume he always looked like that, I guess?

This may be an issue with translation, but early in the series (ep1 I guess) Keiki allegedly said "close your eyes and have faith" - then later one of his shirei told Yoko not to close her eyes, or Jyoyu (sp) wouldn't be able to move. The latter seems more correct; just a mistranslation?

I had a few other Qs, but seem to have forgotten them... oh well. ^^;

thanks

oion wrote:Kirin and their charges are supposed to be immortal, right... and never-aging. But when we see Yoko's predecessor, she appears to have aged from the beginning of her tenure to her decline! I don't remember if there's another instance of emperors or an immortal aging, but that has bugged me if the translation about them not aging is correct.

Kou-ou might've been another example. Perhaps after a long period of shitsudou, the immortality begins to wear off?

En-Ou is a taika, yet his appearance didn't "wash away" when he returned to 12k. We assume he always looked like that, I guess?

As I mentioned in the other thread, the alternate looks are iffy at best in the series. I couldn't tell the difference between old and new Youko when I had pictures of both side by side, aside from the hairstyle.

This may be an issue with translation, but early in the series (ep1 I guess) Keiki allegedly said "close your eyes and have faith" - then later one of his shirei told Yoko not to close her eyes, or Jyoyu (sp) wouldn't be able to move.

Without listening to the scene in question, I'd wager that it's a figure of speech and not a literal command.

The previous Empress of Kei, Jokaku, appears to have aged, but that is not the case. Her face looks like that because she has gone insane. Probably lack of sleep or whatever. Although, they are removed from Tentei's immortal's registry of names, they do not age all of a sudden.

About the Emperor of En not changing when he went to JK land. I believe there was a change, but nothing to great. Most of the changes are subtle. Enki is a Taika as well and there isn't much of a difference with him, just his hair color.

In the AH - AC episode 1 it is a translation error. Keiki tells Youko to have have faith and NOT close her eyes. It is very hard to tell though because Koyasu Takehito (Voice actor of Keiki) doesn't annunciate his words fully sometimes.

Ahh, clearing up that translation error makes things a lot happier, hehe. ^^; *was rewatching episode one and was once again confused by the "close your eyes and have faith" deal. Though, if Keiki really said that, that would sound really sad, like he was telling her to jump off a cliff and have faith she'll fly up.

Okay I make no sense now I'll go sit IN MY CORNER.

Yup, it's a translation mistake. Keiki says "Me dake wa tojinuyo!" meaning just don't close your eyes. the japanese use "nai" for verb's negavite form but they use "nu" sometimes, and AH-AC confused that tojinuyo for tojiruyo (the verb's present affirmative). The pronunciation difference is very subtle but it's a world's difference in meaning

Like Shinkun mentioned she could lack sleep and not eating at all, thus starving to the bones. But since she's immortal she can't die from those causes or desease.

Maybe spoilers for some people, highlight to read:
.
.

In kaze no banri, Riyou, iirc mentioned that she could punish Suzu by starving her but since she's an immortal she couldn't die. Damn, that's a very cruel punishment! Starving yet not dying.

Now, after your immortality contract is nullified you age normally. Examples are Kou ou's sons, they lived for 50 years in the palace but they were as young when Yoko visited them some months later. Shokei aged a few years since his father was executed by the Lord of Kei Province, and was put to live as a commoner, heard of Yoko and embarked to meet her. I suppose Shokei's events took place over a period of a few years.

.
.

yep, that's the translation error good job.

Shoukei's events took place over the span of 3 years

Thanks a lot! Much less confused. Always the risk in poor translations, I guess. ^^; (That translation of "taika" into "royalty" or something so annoys me..) Makes me wonder how Media Blasters intends on translating these special terms and other things. ::pokes at "hitokiri" = "manslayer," so unelegant::

Hmm, now, on the issue of Kirin and their weakness around blood. Is it really from the scent of blood, not merely touching? (eh, ep1 Keiki was just standing by that big ol' koucho corpse, couldn't he smell the darn thing?) I take it there's no hard and fast rule concerning how close a kirin has to be to blood to get dizzy and render his shirei immobile. ::thinks:: Is Jyoyu a shirei? If Jyoyu is a shirei under the service of Keiki, wouldn't he also be immobilized whenever Keiki is out from blood? (I don't think there were any situations like that, though...)

"Tekimen no tsumi" (or, that invasion thing) - so from this, En-Ou can't go into Kei or he'd be punished, but they go into Kei later anyway. Uh, explain please? ^^;

I believe that Kirin dislikes the scent of blood, but I don't think they are actually immobilized by it. I think they get numbed when they actually get blood on them (like when Taiki was bleeding or when keiki had that blood shower in ep 2).

We also see that when keiki had the seal placed on him, the hinman was the only one who wasn't trapped. I'll let shinkun and tentei explain this one.

As for the invasion of kei, I believe Tentei's original goal is to prevent one emperor from invading another country with the INTENT of conquest. However, if he was doing so for the sake of the country's true ruler (such as this case), done with good intention, then i guess a little rule can be bent here and there somewhat. Hell, i bend the rule for you guys all the time in IRC don't I? ^__^

rakucho wrote:I believe that Kirin dislikes the scent of blood, but I don't think they are actually immobilized by it. I think they get numbed when they actually get blood on them (like when Taiki was bleeding or when keiki had that blood shower in ep 2).

But that doesn't explain the dialogue in ep11.... (dizzy... smell... can't move... etc.) Unless that's another mistranslation.

We also see that when keiki had the seal placed on him, the hinman was the only one who wasn't trapped. I'll let shinkun and tentei explain this one.

Oh, I wondered about that, too.. XD

As for the invasion of kei, I believe Tentei's original goal is to prevent one emperor from invading another country with the INTENT of conquest. However, if he was doing so for the sake of the country's true ruler (such as this case), done with good intention, then i guess a little rule can be bent here and there somewhat. Hell, i bend the rule for you guys all the time in IRC don't I? ^__^

(spoilery)

.

.

.

.


From the dialogue translation earlier in ep12 between En-Ou and Kou-Ou, En-Ou supposedly said that he couldn't interfere at all, or he'd be punished or something (don't have the ep handy); likewise Enki had explained the concept to Yoko. But in ep13, En-Ou says to Yoko that he'll use his own soldiers to rescue Keiki (translation correct?). Then while in Kei, and after Yoko found Keiki, En-Ou said something about "rescuing Keiki with the army of Kei" - and making the Kei army swear allegiance. I guess the last part made sense since technically En-Ou wouldn't be directly interfering if the Kei army switches allegience to Yoko; but what about the part where his army attacked the false empress in Kei? (I think) I guess your explanation is the most logical, rakucho, concerning conquest, but some of the earlier translated dialogue sounded more general.... But then I've been mislead by off-translations previously anyway. hohoho~

Blood renders a kirin helpess and dizzy. His Nyoukai as well become powerless. But not the shirei. Notice how youma do alot of killing and are unharmed. And yes Jouyuu is a Shirei.

Now about the invasion thing...
A king from one country cannot invade another with the intent of conquest (as rakucho said)
The Emperor of En was only able to go into Kei with arms only because Youko was with him. In episode 13 he says he will use his Imperial Army (Oushi) to resque Keiki. Later he says they will have Kei's own soldiers take Joei down. So there are limits to what an emperor can do in another kingdom.

what the hell??? i was actually right about something???

i just said all that to make it sounds like I'm cool (didn't want shinkun to have all the glory).

heehee

mm ok, that makes sense. ^^

Onto other things (oh yes is this annoying yet? mehehe) -



(spoil warning)



In ep3, at the beginning, our favorite kaikyaku trio are being chased by a pack of wolf-youma... Later when Kourin speaks to Kou-Ou, she mentions that three Kou people were killed (in this instance). Taking into account from later eps that (1) "youma don't attack in large groups", and (2) Kourin was using Shirei under the order of Kou-Ou to take out the kaikyaku (or Yoko at least), then wouldn't she be able to command her shirei not to allow their youma brethren to attack other citizens? I'm assuming that the shirei doesn't always show itself, therefore we didn't see it with the first wolf-youma attack in ep3, nor the koucho-shirei from the very beginning. The wolf-youma weren't like the rampaging bull-youma in ep10 that were creating destruction just because of their size (the wolf-youma went to the trouble of attacking the 3 Kou guards specifically). ok, this is getting picky perhaps... unless (1) up there was a mistranslation or something.


Also, in ep7 the little Shusei girl called Yoko "oniichan" i.e. "brother" - was Yoko wearing guy-clothes and doing the Chinese-kungfu-soap-opera-trick where "wear opposite sex's clothes renders you instantly the opposite sex"? (Any of you who have watch traditional Chinese kungfu soap series will know what I'm talking about.) Maybe the little girl just thought Yoko was a guy at first... hrm

Oh right, forgot about the specificity part...

Just to clarify, 12k's setting is essentially based on ancient China, yes? Originally I thought it was the ancient Nara period Japan, but that didn't really work out with other details. Wish I could read jp and just go over the books... ^^;

Well... The "not on any map" part was obvious, I meant in cultural elements terms, I suppose, since there was a period in ancient Japan that essentially mirrored Chinese (visual) culture. But with the additional kirin dialogue later I figured it had to be more Chinese than Japanese. Anyway, just wanted to make sure.

Those point-up shoes are bugging me... must research, LOL.

oion wrote: En-Ou is a taika, yet his appearance didn't "wash away" when he returned to 12k. We assume he always looked like that, I guess?

hi ^^

I think en-ou was born in japan, so his look won't change when he goes to jk, just like asano or suzu... unlike Yoko or Enki who were born in jk and so their looks will change when in jk or japan.

bye

En-Ou was born in Hourai, but that doesn't make him any less a taika. Youko was born there as well. It's the matter of their eggs that makes the difference.

Well that's what Taika means.

Egg is washed away from JK land to Japan and settles in womb of a suitable mother. All Taika are born in Japan. Asano and Sugimoto are ordinary Kaikyaku.

En-Ou did change, it was just a really subtle change. His hair got longer. That's about it.

~Shadrach Anki

Shadowbard wrote:En-Ou did change, it was just a really subtle change. His hair got longer. That's about it.

~Shadrach Anki

Um. . . Asano's hair got longer, too. . . (Or were you being a bit sarcastic?)