The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

Pure speculation based on videos and translations -

When a Kirin chooses a ruler he stops aging and becomes immortal. In the case of a child kirin, he will continue to age until mature (which, in Rokuta's case was 12 years old). It really looks to me like when a ruler dies the kirin begins to age again. I base this on the fact that Rokuta and Sairin are (apparently) the only young kirin. When Sairin stood next to Suzu she was the same height so I figured she was mid-teens, maybe even a little younger (13 or 14?).

I thought this might be important because Kirin have a natural lifespan of the late-30's. The Enki before Rokuta died because he could not find a ruler before he reached that age. So if a kirin looses his ruler, he starts to age and eventually reaches 38,39 (whatever) and dies. Then the next kirin's ranka grows on Mt. Hou. It seems that the kirin were created with a planned obsolescence.

This makes me wonder about the revelation. Tentei sends the revelation to the kirin, but the kirin must interpret it. Keiki has said it is an urge that cannot be refused. But - Rokuta came very close to refusing it. I wonder if the revelation is only part of the matter, and the kirin dying is a way to recycle the government. For example - Kirin A may interpret the revelation to mean Person B in the ruler, but Kirin C would interpret the revelation to mean Person D. Person B would rule for 1000 years but person D would rule for 20. If Kirin C interprets the revelation and constantly chooses people like person D, then eventually the rulers would keep dying and he would age and die at 38 or 39. Thus giving way for Kirin A to be born and make better interpretations of the revelation and choose Person B.

nightchaser wrote:I thought this might be important because Kirin have a natural lifespan of the late-30's. The Enki before Rokuta died because he could not find a ruler before he reached that age. So if a kirin looses his ruler, he starts to age and eventually reaches 38,39 (whatever) and dies.

Well, the book does say that "that Saihou finally died at his thirties without choosing an emperor", but it might be a bit of a jump to go from the statement that he died while in his thirties to to deciding he died because he reached that age. A lot of people die younger than our species' natural lifespan. Enki could have been in a terrible accident or been killed by a pack of youma. After all, there are limits to what even an immortal can survive. (And I'm not sure whether kirin are immortal before choosing a ruler.)

nightchaser wrote:This makes me wonder about the revelation. Tentei sends the revelation to the kirin, but the kirin must interpret it. Keiki has said it is an urge that cannot be refused. But - Rokuta came very close to refusing it. I wonder if the revelation is only part of the matter, and the kirin dying is a way to recycle the government. For example - Kirin A may interpret the revelation to mean Person B in the ruler, but Kirin C would interpret the revelation to mean Person D. Person B would rule for 1000 years but person D would rule for 20. If Kirin C interprets the revelation and constantly chooses people like person D, then eventually the rulers would keep dying and he would age and die at 38 or 39. Thus giving way for Kirin A to be born and make better interpretations of the revelation and choose Person B.

I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning that growing old and dying is the way of getting rid of kirin who choose badly. After all, there's already a method in place to insure that kirin who choose bad rulers will be replaced - They'll get shitsudou. It does, however, bring up an interesting question about just how much "choice" is there when a kirin chooses their ruler.

When Taiki's worrying about choosing without a revelation, there's a fair amount of talk about how kirin can't choose wrong, and even a trick to prove to Taiki that he's physically incapable of bowing to the wrong person even if he tries to. On the other hand, that's after Taiki has already made his choice and bonded with Gyousou.

If there was in fact only one correct person that a kirin must choose, it seems like there would be a lot more cases where the kirin never finds that one person. Apparently, though, cases such as the former Enki are quite rare ("This was the eighth catastrophe after Kaibyaku [開闢, the Creation]").

I think it's more likely that there are certain qualities that make a person suitable in the eyes of Tentei, and such people will have the Ouki which kirin who haven't bonded with a ruler will be drawn to. There may be, however, some degree of choice on the kirin's part about whether what draws them to someone is strong enough to select that person as their ruler. A kirin who is too quick to bow to the first person who shows the slightest trace of Ouki may be more apt to choose bad rulers who are only barely acceptable. A kirin who is too demanding that the Ouki be powerful and truly irresistable before he'll choose is more apt to not find anyone up to his standards, and end up (like the former Enki) not choosing any ruler.
We also know, however, that in some cases the Ouki is strong enough to be truly irresistable. Rokuta didn't want to choose anyone, but once he met Shouryu, he was unable to not choose him.

I wrote:Well, the book does say that "that Saihou finally died at his thirties without choosing an emperor", but it might be a bit of a jump to go from the statement that he died while in his thirties to to deciding he died because he reached that age.

carmolita wrote:kirins ages and timeline: http://www015.upp.so-net.ne.jp/juunikirin/ click on timeline 6th box down on the left-it has the reference listed

Maybe I was wrong. According to that site, "he died of kirin's natural span of life". I wonder which book that was from. Higashi no Wadatsumi, Nishi no Soukai just mentioned his age when he died, but not how he died (unless the translation on that part was incomplete). I wonder if one of the other books goes into more detail.

That was interesting - I found the following:

-514 Rokuta's Ranka appeared
-47 Sairin's Ranka
-34 Keiki's Ranka
-15 Taiki's Ranka
-6 Keiki chooses Jokaku as queen
-1 Jokaku dies
0 Youko arrives

I was really interested, though, in apparent age rather than physical. The kirin age until they mature, but if the ruler dies do they start aging again? I was wondering if Sairin would be a clue to this because she chose a king when she was 8. In the video when she stands next to Suzu she is the same size, yet Suzu is clearly small for her age (she is a head shorter than Youko and Shokei). So I wondered how much Sairin aged between the kings she chose. But from reading the timeline - it looks like the kings were chosen quickly (within a year) of the previous king dying so it isn't much of a clue after all

[quote="carmolita"][quote="nightchaser"]That was interesting - I found the following:

-514 Rokuta's Ranka appeared
-47 Sairin's Ranka
-34 Keiki's Ranka
-15 Taiki's Ranka
-6 Keiki chooses Jokaku as queen
-1 Jokaku dies
0 Youko arrives

I was really interested, though, in apparent age rather than physical. The kirin age until they mature, but if the ruler dies do they start aging again? I was wondering if Sairin would be a clue to this because she chose a king when she was 8. In the video when she stands next to Suzu she is the same size, yet Suzu is clearly small for her age (she is a head shorter than Youko and Shokei). So I wondered how much Sairin aged between the kings she chose. But from reading the timeline - it looks like the kings were chosen quickly (within a year) of the previous king dying so it isn't much of a clue after all [/quote]

um hum , but it's also inmportant to keep in mind that suzu is 16,she was 12 when she was taken from her parents and wanderd around w/that shusai group until she met lady rio and became a senin so her growth stunted at that point, but she was about 16 when that happened..[/quote]

Yes - exactly - she stopped aging at about 16, but compared to Youko and Shokei she is still smaller than them. Just normal variance between people. I just found it interesting that Sairin was the same height as Suzu and wondered if that made her the same "age" as Suzu or younger. She's taller than Enki (my own estimate) so I think she is older than 12 or 13.

oh...how cute...so sairin is just a youngster after all...but actually, her royal dress makes her look older.... hehehe...well, they say that a kirin stops aging when they are mature...but you all say they age when they don't have a ruler to protect....well....hmmm...*ponders* welll...for meh...everyone ages when they don't do their job...LOL...well it's kinda true ryt?

Thanks for the link, but i simply have to ask. What's the origin of this scale? I mean where does all this information come from? Anybody knows?
How we can calculate that Keiki is 34 years old at all? I simply never saw any references to his actual age in the anime and translated novels.
Eugene Woodbury mentions in his translation that he's in "mid-twenties" and that's it.
There are a lot of other events mentioned that i never heard of them before.

well....yeah...but where did the timeline came from? did ono-sensei did it?
well, description says that keiki is in mid-20's and people says that the kingdom of kei has been under the ministers ofr 25 years...it gave me an idea that keiki might be 25....it is still confusing anyhows....