The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

-Nordic myth of the world tree, although theres some reference (American comic wise, an old issue of Thor in the late 80s? I think) abt children being born from them.
-Chinese culture/ myth (obviously), of Kirin abet with much additions, since Kirin in Chinese mythos make rare appearences.

Any similarities from other sources?

This list could go on and on, cause many of the creatures (and just about everything else) can be found in more than one mythology....

Sanctum101> Spotting them would be interesting

The "everything from the tree of life" was pretty unusal (for me at lest) till I remembered the Nordic myths. Theres also the great serpent which emerges from the sea during Yoko's trip, the piece of real estate's on the turtle's back (abet a scaled back version) of...Hindu/ Buddisim mythology?

Talking creatures, however are pretty common, esp with the Narnia interest currently.

Ok....

Kiirin is from Hindu myth....
The wolfs remind me of Fenrir, the nordic wolf that ate the sun at ragnarock...
The chicken mounts reminded me of cokatrice...europeon...

Kirin's from Hindu myth? Here I thought its from chinese, as seen with their dragons, embrodery and stuff

chicken mounts...Though they look more like feral, flying cousins of the chocobo...

Hanjou from the Native American animal spirit / protector. The warrior would call on the animal spirit to join him on the hunt or give him victory over adversaries. While they did not believe they became the animal - it was kind of channeling.

There is the were-creature of europe that turned into a wolf and of Japan that turned into a Fox.

I have never heard of anything like a kirin in Hindu mythology either. It is more reminiscent of Chinese mythology and European Unicorn that was so pure only a maiden of true virtue could approach it.

The heavens choosing the king is probably in every myth. Along with kingly powers of long life (in Europe "the king has died - long live the king" referred to the heir being the reincarnation of the dead monarchs reign), healing (the stone that Youko has can heal), wisdom (En-ou seems to have advice for everything) and good looks (hah!).

nightchaser wrote: wisdom (En-ou seems to have advice for everything) and good looks (hah!).

Hihi, talk about En-Ou's good looks. If i have not watched the animation but only read the books, Enki is my favorite character. However, it amazes me how good looking En-ou is. The animators and author made him to be every lady's dream man. Now, I'm really diminishing my character if I continue to have Shouryuu as my favourite character. But still....he's still my favorite and I justify that by saying he is a remarkable leader. errrr...but Enki is better. Head and heart at war here! So confused.

I have not come across a unicorn in Chinese stories? I'm curious where kirins appear in Chinese myths.

Ah! I just double checked...I stand corrected

I have come across a link that talks about Chinese unicorns.

http://chineseculture.about.com/gi/dyna ... china.html

The site also has some very interesting stuff about Chinese culture.
Shanonn

Shanonn> Seems like our 12 Kingdom Kirin's a mix of eastern and western blood... after readin the profile...no wonder their so rare...

the 麒麟 (qilin) is not related to the unicorn. the fact that people call it the "chinese unicorn" gives it implications that aren't there. perhaps because it resembles the unicorn to whomever in the west first called it a unicorn that it became known as that. it would be like someone in china calling the unicorn a "western qilin." the chinese qilin (different from the kirin twelve kingdoms) looks like a combination of a dragon, a lion and a deer (or sometimes a fish and an ox) with a single antler coming out of its head, while a unicorn is just a white horse with a single horn. a qilin's appearance is a very good omen.

much of the twelve kingdoms ritual, government administration, culture, etc. (including the kirin) draws from that of pre-han dyntasty china, so those similarities are not accidental.

retrooo

Some interesting Wikipedia* articles relating to the western unicorn and the Qilin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin

I find it interesting that, according to these articles, the Japanese took their own adaptation of the Chinese Qilin, made it more deerlike, and called it a kirin. Also note that kirin is also Japanese for giraffe (If you didn't get that from the fansub notes in the Taiki arc).

Then again, even the western Unicorn has morphed slightly from its traditional form, which "has a billy-goat beard, a lion's tail, and cloven hoofs". I know this to be true.

*Please note that there is no guarantee that the information on wikipedia is correct, but I do find it useful for a starting place for odd bits of information.

Ret wrote:the 麒麟 (qilin) is not related to the unicorn. the fact that people call it the "chinese unicorn" gives it implications that aren't there. perhaps because it resembles the unicorn to whomever in the west first called it a unicorn that it became known as that. it would be like someone in china calling the unicorn a "western qilin." the chinese qilin (different from the kirin twelve kingdoms) looks like a combination of a dragon, a lion and a deer (or sometimes a fish and an ox) with a single antler coming out of its head, while a unicorn is just a white horse with a single horn. a qilin's appearance is a very good omen.

much of the twelve kingdoms ritual, government administration, culture, etc. (including the kirin) draws from that of pre-han dyntasty china, so those similarities are not accidental.

retrooo

Thanks Ret,

I just returned from a Christmas break in Toronto where I met a friend (originally from HK) and who now lives in Toronto. He said 麒麟 is a very common creature in Chinese myths. It looks like a dragon and sometimes replaces it in Chinese traditional Operas. He is not aware that 麒麟 is the Chinese version of a Western unicorn. In his mind, 麒麟 is pure Chinese. What you said is accurate. I was kind of embarassed with my questions.

So, I think it is important to note this difference between the kirins of the 12 kingdoms and 麒麟 in Chinese myths. They look very different and should not be equated.

Indeed, they are different. One is a mythological creature in one world, and the other is a real creature in a fictional world where monkeys haunt people's dreams...

In fact, I'm more curious about the differences in the Japanese view of the kirin and the Chinese qilin. This may make more sense in the origins of the 12 Kingdom's kirin, or it may mean nothing.

Tahki wrote:Kirin's from Hindu myth? Here I thought its from chinese, as seen with their dragons, embrodery and stuff

While Fuyumi Ono is drawing mainly on the Chinese folklore to define the function and significance of the kirin, it may be said that the design comes from the more deer-like Indian unicorn (while the Chinese version is more dragon or lion-like). The earliest representations of unicorns in folklore and art come from ancient India. Unicorns have been found prevalent on the seals and signs of Mohenjodaro and Harrappa, dating back to at least five to six thousand years ago. China and India traded and had culture contact look before the "silk road" route was established.

zitch wrote:Some interesting Wikipedia* articles relating to the western unicorn and the Qilin:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin

I read the wikipedia link above, so the idea of the Western unicorn (horse with a horn) did originate from India. However, I checked the chinese dictionary for the word (qilin) and it translates to English as Unicorn. According to the English definition of the word unicorn, it is a horse with a horn coming out of its forehead. So there lies the confusion again. The Chinese (qilin) truely looks like a dragon, not a horse. The Chinese dictionary should not translate (qilin) as a unicorn. I'm unsure if the significance or powers of a western unicorn is the same as that of a Chinese (qilin).

The Japanese "Kirin" in the 12 kingdoms clearly resemble the western unicorn in physical appearance but its symbolism, powers, origins may resember the Chinese (qilin). Actually, I think th Kirin of the 12 kingdoms might have been the creative work of the author Fuyumi Ono, it can transform itself into human form.

I would prefer to keep the creatures separate. We have the western unicorn, the (Chinese) qilin, the (Japanese) kirin, then the (Twelve Kingdoms) kirin. What they actually have to do with each other is, as of this thread, currently unknown other than a possible link between the Japanese kirin and the Chinese qilin.

This could get confusing...

Where did Fuyumi Ono develop the Twelve Kingdoms kirin? We're not sure (unless someone asks her directly... hint hint.... ). It's likely that she did develop her kirin from the real-life mythological unicorn, qilin, and/or kirin. Much like J. R. R. Tolkien's elves were derrived from ancient elf mythology (which were minor gods of nature and fertility in Norse mythology), but Tolkien designed his elves to be more human-like. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf)

Well, King En's nickname for Enki means "a cross between and horse and a deer". So maybe that is all the author meant to do. Possibly she really loved those two animals and decided to put a horn on it and write a book. There is also a popular poster that was out in the 70's and 80's of a one horned goat that is just gorgeous. That picture may have made it's way into Japan and she saw it at one point. The goat was a natural mutation that turns up occassionaly.