The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

Anime question.
Why did the Lord of Kei province in Hou (Genkei I think his name was) kill the Kirin during the uprising? I mean, he talks about doing it for the people and wanting the populace to recover quickly yet he kills the Kirin, an entity which represents the will of the people and, was in no way, responsible for the Kings mental state. Allowing her to live would have quickened the time it took to find a new ruler but instead, he prefers a prolonged state where Hou has to also wait for a new Kirin. Keiki was allowed to choose a new ruler (a great one at that); why not Hourin?

Sorry for ranting so much, it's just that I get the feeling that I might have missed something about this guy because right now, in my mind, he's a hypocrite.

Chutatsu was the second king for Hourin, when Gekkei killed Hourin he said something like "Hope you understand, after choosing two fatuous kings, how people are filled with despair.". Hourin has got a second chance, but failed to succeed once again, so I guess people had lost there hopes and trust and wanted a fresh new start. (But of course this is not a good excuse to kill the kirin...)

He was the 2nd king that Hourin chose? Wow, I guess I missed that bit of information. Hmm, I still think of Gekkei as an idiot though; purely on the fact that some rulers change once in power and a Kirin is not responsible for that. Besides, third time's the charm, right?

you're correct in that it isn't the kirin's fault if the ruler changes after they have choosen them, however, since this particular kirin had choosen two rulers that both changed. I believe the Lord of Kei was afraid that she would choose another ruler that would bring misfortune to the kingdom. I think that he was hoping that a new kirin would be able to choose a better ruler.

I think it's more of a "will of the people" scenario. Gekkei probably has a better understanding of how the process works, but the general populace (largely consisting of farmers) probably doesn't. By the looks of it, people generally don't understand that the Kirin doesn't actually choose the emperor, but is simply a vessel through which the Gods choose one.

Heck, the fact that people misunderstand the Kirin's role in the governing system is highlighted in that Taiki arc, when that guy ambushed Taiki to force the kirin to choose him as emperor of Tai.

So, sure, Gekkei probably knows that it's not Hourin's fault for choosing two bad emperors. But killing her is a political move to appease the people. I think she realizes that. Notice how she accepts her "punishment" (Then again, it could be her waiting for release from suffering of the shitsudo, or the kirin's gentle nature in general). If she wasn't killed, seeds of discontent and mistrust would flow through the populace: "Why is she still alive after choosing two bad emperors? Isn't she cursed or an idiot? Why must we follow her choice?", etc.

Logically and given all the facts we learn in the first two arcs about the kirin, she isn't at fault. Unfortunately, facts and logic mean little when it comes to masses of people.

When I called him a hypocrite, I was referring to his lack of desire to even take a chance with a new king and possibly have Hou on the process of recovery. Instead of that, while speaking of doing all this for the well-fare of the people, he would rather have no chance of recovery for a prolonged period. As far as I'm concerned, temporary governments aren't sanctioned by the gods. Then again, compared to the Kings treatment and the risk of a repeat of such treatment, maybe starvation and death due to disease and natural disasters doesn't look so bad.

We don't see much of kingless kingdoms but judging by the attitude of most of the characters, it's supposed to be really bad. Now considering the collective mentality of the elite on this matter, how can he knowingly kill the kirin? Even if the general populace despises Hourin I doubt anything bad would come from it as Gekkei is their hero and a decision on his part to spare Hourin would not have been dissimilar to what happened when he spared the princess.

Yeah, killing the kirin doesn't seem to make objective sense. But Eugene's novel translation has

In that moment, Shoukei could not blink, could not speak. Gekkei cast her
a disinterested glance and walked over to the divan where Hourin was
resting. Hourin looked up at him with blank eyes.

"I wish you to understand as well the two generations of despair suffered
by the people because of this black prince whom you chose."

Hourin stared at him hard, and quietly nodded. Gekkei bowed low in
respect. Then he raised the sword above his head.

Do we really know that Gekkei understands how the kirin/king choosing works?

Also I haven't seen anything about Hourin choosing two rulers. Two generations under Chuutatsu's 30 year reign, yes. But not two rulers, in that part of the novel nor in the corresponding part of the anime.

About two kings, this is my understanding after reading the Chinese translations of the novels made by SPP from Taiwan. I just looked up a couple of other translations on the web, all seems to say "two generations of fatuous kings" at the place quoted above. (However, I have sometimes seen inconsistencies between some web translations and the SPP one, but as far as I know the SPP translations have not failed me yet .) But of course I did not read in the original language, and one could always interpret things in different ways, but this is how I understood from the translations I got.

A kingdom without king can be bad or very bad, depending on the government at the time, the process towards disrepair can be very slow. E.g. I remember reading somewhere that before Gyousou came to the throne, the condition of Tai is not too bad, since the government was a well functioning one.

So the fact about the two kings was just a person's/people's perception of the text? Has there even been mention of the other king anywhere else in the novel or anime? If Hourin did choose two bad kings then more of the public's anger would have been directed at the Kirin yet I haven't seen anything of such.

Even if there was a functional interim government in place (Kei being an example), the kingdom would still be in poverty due to it's inability to engage in agriculture. The higher powers wouldn't suffer as much but the general populace would. This is why I don't understand Gekkei's decision. Sure, the citizens are ignorant in regards to how the system works but that is why it's up to their leader to make the right decisions. Appeasing the ignorant even though you know it's going to condemn them just doesn't seem right.

The description of Hourin at THE TWELVE KINGDOMS ENCYCLOPEDIA is:
先の峯王仲韃は峯麟にとって二人目の王
二代続けて暗君を選んだということで先の峯王仲韃とともに月渓に落首された
My Japanese is too bad to properly understand the exact meaning (although I think that it is explained here that Chutatsu was the second king for Hourin), maybe someone here can translate more exactly?

What Gekkei definitely did not expect was that the newborn Houkei was going to be missing from Houzan, there was just some loose clues that it might have something to do with a shoku. Just another mystery that Ono sama has to explain. This is a potential cause for an even longer wait for the next king of Hou.

My Japanese is almost non-existent. I faint at the sight of Kanji. Anyway, I can make out "king" and "2 generations." What do you get if you combine 二人(two people) with 目?......it'll be great if someone can translate Elysium's passage. This will determine if Gekkei was a fool or a hypocrite who wanted the throne.

I've checked around but haven't found any news on whether or not they were going to animate any more of her books. Is it true that she isn't even working on the Twelve Kingdoms saga right now?

My problem is the opposite, I faint when I see hiragana and katakana...

My hope is that she is working on the 12 kingdoms in secret.

I have found the original passage in the book:
月渓は淡々とした視線を祥瓊に投げて、峯麟の横たわった榻へと歩み寄る。
「――台輔」
峯麟は虚ろな目で月渓を見上げた。
「二代に亘って暗君を選んだあなたに対する、民の絶望を理解していただきたい」
峯麟はまじまじと月渓を見上げ、やがて静かに頷いた。
月渓は深く拝礼し、そして血濡れた直刀を翳した。
――峯王および、峯麟登避。
芳国で一つの王朝が終わった。

No one here who can read Japanese?

Is that the passage from the original novel?
I've checked around the internet and there is indeed different takes on the Hourin matter. It seems the only way to know for sure is for someone to translate the original part of the text.....I'll just work on my Japanese until then....

Yes, the passage in my last post was the original words from the novel, and I have marked the relevant sentence with red.
I have not seen much said about Hourin, the only other place that I know is in the drama "Eight kirins", but nothing about the matter was revealed there.

One other thing that came to my mind is the translation of the names of the countries and the names of the kings and kirins. In the original novels the name of the country is 芳, and the name of the king is 峯, but since the Japanese pronunciation seems to be the same for both characters, the word "Hou" seems to be used for both. I'm curious about how the official translation will solve this problem, it is indeed a problem since the surname of the kings can be changed when some king has gone too far and angered the gods (as far as I know it has happened twice, once to Tai and once to Sai).