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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:12 am
by Juuni
To make it clear from the beginning, I can't clarify this for you.
But, how am I surprised by your post! I wasn't expecting the same theme, they are very similar. I'm curious about it too. Maybe it will all be reduced to the classic question : "which came first?" and then we'll know who copied and who was original.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:19 pm
by animeisha
Juuni wrote:To make it clear from the beginning, I can't clarify this for you.
But, how am I surprised by your post! I wasn't expecting the same theme, they are very similar. I'm curious about it too. Maybe it will all be reduced to the classic question : "which came first?" and then we'll know who copied and who was original.
Whoa. Wasn't expecting that.
As for which came first, according to wiki, Heroes of Might and Magic 4 was released in the US about 2 weeks before the 12K television show first aired in Japan. Who knows which was in production first though. I checked the composers for both soundtracks, none of the names matched up.
This is really, really strange though. 3DO, the developer of HOM&M, was based in California, and was a US company. They went out over 5 years ago, so we might never get an answer about this.
Based on how horrible most of 3DO's games were, I'd like to jokingly say that they couldn't make anything as good as that music if their lives depended on it and had to have stolen it from Kunihiko Ryō, the composer of the 12K soundtrack, but since I doubt the soundtracks for 12K were available before the show even aired, so that's probably not true. ;P
I think what's more likely here, is that those songs were composed by neither, and were public domain or from some old Irish or Celtric records or something. If that's the case, I'd like to know the history on that. Also, if that's the deal, these songs could be in other media too!
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:13 pm
by Shokou
Fuushun is the great track that plays when Taiki is being retrieved by Sanchi. ;; I think it played in a Shoryu flashback at the last arc, too.
Ruika is just the best insert BGM in the series. Dramatic moment at Seishu's death, and it played in the final speech at Episode 39. <3
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:12 am
by Shokou
Sorry, I just saw nobody pointing that out. I wouldn't say Celtic, but perhaps the tracks are Chinese?
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:04 pm
by animeisha
DimensionW wrote:Heroes of Might and Magic IV came out a while before the first episode of JK ever aired. And those two songs came from episodes a little later in the series. Both soundtracks were probably arranged around the same time actually. And yeah, you reached a similar conclusion to what I'm thinking is probably the case.
@Shokou: I'm well aware of that. What I'm looking for is the origin of these songs, not what they are in relation to JK.
I've tried to ask one of the game's composers about the song, but I haven't been emailed back on it. They still make music though. Rob King and Paul Romero. They did the score for Heroes V (Ubisoft bought the franchise) more recently and it was pretty good stuff too.
I found a forum the other night where someone apparently got a somewhat conclusive answer about the songs appearing in both from the composers of HOM&M, and apparently, the composers from HOM&M had sold off some of the music samples from the game to other companies.
If that's the case, color me a bit disappointed honestly.
Here's the thread:
http://www.animenfo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5134
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:47 am
by Shokou
Somehow, I don't believe this information. I really doubt those two songs, some of the best in the series, come from some random North American game.
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:34 am
by Juuni
animeisha wrote:
If that's the case, color me a bit disappointed honestly.
Yup, me too. But only a bit.
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:35 am
by Jinx999
This topic reminds me of when they recycled music from battles in "Record of Lodoss War" for Go matches in "Hikaru No Go". The disconnect threw me.
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:01 pm
by Shokou
I still refuse to believe this...
Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:13 pm
by Shokou
But the games they supposedely got the music from irk me off...and yet, the music is so great, especially Ruika(one of my favourites).
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:06 pm
by Shokou
I didn't say it doesn't have a large fanbase. I'm saying I hate those games.
Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:35 pm
by zitch
Sorry to bring up this old topic, but I did find some information about the similarities of some of the songs in The Twelve Kingdoms, Heroes of Might and Magic IV, and, in the end, several other games:
http://kevinsung.org/?p=3012
[UPDATE 4: Rather than speculate further, I decided to email Paul Romero, the man who composed the HOMM IV soundtrack in order to get some answers. Below is his explanation.]
“I think what all three of us composers have in common is that we probably used an ancient instrument sample (companies sell pre-recorded bits of ancient instruments playing very old melodic fragments which then I can add orchestral accompaniment and vary the speed of the melody to suit the mood. These fragments come in instrumental catalogs and many soundtrack composers will use bits and pieces of melodies to incorporate into their scores. I’m not sure what catalog the little tune came from but I’m sure it’s from the same one that the other composers used as well. I try not to use such pre-recorded fragments due to the fact that lots of other composers will be using the same tool, but when you have deadlines like we have in this industry (i.e., producers needing a 3 minute piece of music within 24 hours, composed, recorded, mixed, mastered, then embedded into the graphics), we use every tool possible in order to have a good-sounding piece of music created in a timely fashion.”
So there you have it. The music is similar because they used the same base melodic fragments, customized and resampled to fit each composer’s style. I guess these aren’t old Celtic folk songs after all, but more like the musical equivalent of stock photography.
I had found this a while back, but didn't think to link it here, as I didn't find a suitable place to put it yet. A blog post about another
Ryo Kunihiko soundtrack (Emma) being similar to a Bloomberg TV show theme (and
the answer from Bloomberg) reminded me of this.