The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

I'd like to know what do you guys think of Asano's role in the animated series, as a character made up specifically for it(supposedely representing part of Sekishi's conscience).

I think he was a good character: I could feel his pain as he abandoned by all, and was left in a world he knew nothing of. I felt his insanity was realistic, and the moment of his death, when he died to help his friends Youko and Suzu who he thought were going to be killed by Gahou's troops, was a very touching moment. I felt sorry for the guy from the beginning to the bitter end in the showdown with Shoshiba.

So, what does this forum think? Was he a good character, or did the novels handle the job better by having his part in Youko?

...what

I didn't watch it in English, but I watched it without knowing he was a "fake" character: Why did you think his insanity didn't make sense?

I saw his death as a very touching moment: he finally realizes what he should do, stops submiting to others and dies for his friends and for their rightful rebellion: he had no idea the Meikaku rebels were already coming. he fought Shoshiba in a matter of life and death. I was touched by his character from beginning to end. And lastly, the pairing fanatics already have the Youko x Keiki in the way, so why not Asano too?

His insanity didn't make sense because he was the most calm and collected character. He pulled a complete 180 from being the voice of reason to being the "murder everything!" guy. It was just cheesy. Adding to that how batshit crazy companion character Sugimoto was at first and how her transition went the exact opposite direction and it just seemed like a really bad cliche.

I liked exactly what you poined out. I wonder how is that a cliché...do you know other cases of calm-goes-insane?

It also doesn't make sense how Asano keeps himself so well kempt for their first few weeks in the place, but then turns into a scraggly looking guy who appears never to comb his hair. I suppose he could have dropped it, but I have a feeling the traveling performers would have provided one for him eagerly.

Because he was abandoned by Youko and Sugimoto(or so he thought...). He was calm earlier because he was with his friends from Hourai. Then he felt like the world abandoned him. Therefore, he even changed his appearance, as in his new state of mind, doing anything to his hair was out of question(and I thought he looked handsome in that bandana and with the new, longer hairstyle). That's why I thought his insanity was realistic.

...

Why do some many people use that generalizing site as if it was the absolute truth?

Because it's an extremely good place to pick up ideas and tie things together. It's also amusing to read.

DimensionW wrote:His insanity didn't make sense because he was the most calm and collected character.
It also doesn't make sense how Asano keeps himself so well kempt for their first few weeks in the place, but then turns into a scraggly looking guy who appears never to comb his hair.

It makes a lot of sense.

At first he was calm, cool and collected because he was in his element. He left the world he knew and entered a new one, whose rules he did not knew and whose language he did not understand. Yet, he was still able to maintain a sort of coolness, because he had his friends with him. When they were lost too, he was forced to live on his own in an environment which he considered to be hostile, because he did not understand it. Thus, he lost all touch with reality and subsequently his peaceful nature. Half way through his insanity, he meets Youko again. Quite roughly, she temporarily sets him back on the right track. When he finally understands this new reality that he has lived in, his peaceful, righteous nature kicks back in and he decides to do what is right. The fact that he dies while doing it, adds value to the lesson we are to learn from Asano.

Also, he's the guy who fitted in best at school. He's the one who was normal there. He's the only one we saw talking with friends and socialising. Sugimoto is the one who sat by herself at school and didn't talk to anyone. Youko's relationship with her "friends" only served to illustrate her inability to relate to people.

However, because he was well adjusted to the real world, it was difficult for him to adjust to being outside it. Neither Youko or Sugimoto had to change sucessful and well practiced habits to fit in. He was good at relating to Youko and sugimoto while they travelled together, but we never saw him trying to talk to a native of the twelve kingdoms.

Jinx99 wrote:Because it's an extremely good place to pick up ideas and tie things together. It's also amusing to read.

I see what you mean...but I don't like it: they try to generalize everything into groups of their "tropes", trying to tak the individual value of each series. For example, I look up "Juuni Kokki" there, and I only see a list of their "tropes".

And sadly, the names given to their "tropes" are unfortunate: they insist on "Big Bad", "Villain" and etcetera. And those names are reproduced all over the internet, they get more annoying than fads(OH HE HAD A CROWNING MOMENT OF AWESOME LOL =D)

Also...I pretty much agree with you and Juuni on Asano's insanity. Nothing to add to it, except for also looking at Suzu's psychological problems, which are also derived from being thrown aside in an unknown world where she can't even understand the natives' language.

DimensionW wrote:It'd be one thing for him to go a little crazy, but he outright becomes Woobie Destroyer of Worlds. In his own mind of course. It isn't like he was in the worst position at the time either. He was embedded in a familiar element, traveling with Shusei and what not... which Yoko had certainly explained to him during the initial ark. It isn't too likely that they were treating him like an outcast either.

Compounding that, the Shusei would have known about En and its programs. It isn't likely that they would avoid a place like that for an extended period of time what with it being the single most prosperous nation on the mainland continent... the whole thing just requires way too much suspension of disbelief. If anything, his tension away from Yoko should have been less than his tension around Yoko. He had a sizable traveling party that didn't attract demons, he didn't have people constantly trying to sell him into slavery or outright kill him for potential rewards, and he didn't have to deal with his batshit crazy girlfriend anymore.

It's not like they were treating him like an outcast...but think of it: he could not understand their words. Furthermore, I forgot: how much time did he spend with the Shusei? En is probably filled with Shusei all the time, as it is the most prosperous kingdom, so maybe there isn't time for all carriages to be there the entire time...

DimensionW wrote:As for the usefulness of tropes wiki, if you have a cliché and you want to tack it on to someone, it helps to have a name for that cliché.

I prefer to make my own names for the clichés, not follow the names other people made up. It's no fun that way, you get it?

DimensionW wrote:It'd be one thing for him to go a little crazy, but he outright becomes Woobie Destroyer of Worlds. In his own mind of course. It isn't like he was in the worst position at the time either. He was embedded in a familiar element, traveling with Shusei and what not... which Yoko had certainly explained to him during the initial ark. It isn't too likely that they were treating him like an outcast either.

Compounding that, the Shusei would have known about En and its programs. It isn't likely that they would avoid a place like that for an extended period of time what with it being the single most prosperous nation on the mainland continent... the whole thing just requires way too much suspension of disbelief. If anything, his tension away from Yoko should have been less than his tension around Yoko. He had a sizable traveling party that didn't attract demons, he didn't have people constantly trying to sell him into slavery or outright kill him for potential rewards, and he didn't have to deal with his batshit crazy girlfriend anymore.

One advantage of being hunted by demons - it doesn't give you time to brood. It would also mean that you life had purpose and direction.

I don't think Youko would have explained about the Shusei originally, she only spent a noticable amount of time with them after splitting up with her friends. I don't think that's important, though, travelling actors isn't a hard concept to grasp. Also Sugimoto's insantiy (and for that matter Youko's) only became apparant after they split up.

The main thing is that he'd been lost and on his own for months - maybe a year or more. During which time he'd been unable to communicate with anyone. Try to imagine a year in solitary confinement, with no idea why you're there and no prospect of release or escape.

The way I see it, it's like his world crumbled...he was abandoned by his friends, by Keiki, by his world...by everything.

DimensionW wrote:Objection. Sugimoto's insanity was obvious from the moment she set foot in the story. Even in the book you could immediately tell she had issues... just in the book they don't get resolved.

Nope. Sugimoto was originally a loner who liked reading fantasy books and got badly bullied by her classmates. None of this qualifies as more than mild eccentricity, but does set the stage for her later crazyness.

She liked to escape from her a$$hole classmates into a fantasy book and, frankly, who can blame her. Given the chance to really escape into a real fantasy world, she jumped at it, thinking that she'd be living out the plot of one of her books. Her craziness only came when she tried to warp the real world to fit into her "fantasy".

While the seeds of her insanity lay in her original character, it took some very peculiar circumstances for them to grow.

Having Asano just suddenly flip out would, I agree, be a cop out. However it only looks like a sudden change because we don't see the year(?) between him separating from Youko and him meeting Suzu.

Jinx999 wrote:Nope. Sugimoto was originally a loner who liked reading fantasy books and got badly bullied by her classmates. None of this qualifies as more than mild eccentricity, but does set the stage for her later crazyness.

She liked to escape from her a$$hole classmates into a fantasy book and, frankly, who can blame her. Given the chance to really escape into a real fantasy world, she jumped at it, thinking that she'd be living out the plot of one of her books. Her craziness only came when she tried to warp the real world to fit into her "fantasy".

When you put it like this, I start sympathizing with Sugimoto, a character I usually dislike, because she thought a very real world was her own little fantasy world. And when she realizes it's not, she prefers to leave and return to Hourai instead of trying to make this rough world good for her(Suzu did that).

That, and she ruined her hair when she returned.

DimensionW wrote:Except Yoko's sword relays Sugimoto's somewhat sociopathic thoughts to Yoko in the book... which is more than just mild ecentricity. It's one thing for a character to be a loner and bullied, it's another for her to be pleased with the disappearance and likely death of one of the people who didn't bully her.

Granted, said visions aren't necessarily reliable... in this case it's taken as a probable truth.

That also depends on how similar the book and anime Sugimoto are. There are also many ways to interpret this. One way is that she was really disguested that Youko went along with the bullying in public but acted nice in private - which didn't do Sugimoto any good but did allow Youko to feel better about herself.

I also agree that Sugimoto's later haircut was hideous. My favorite look for her is when the Hinman altered her face. That was a good hairstyle.

Yeah. I wish she stayed around to help Youko build her kingdom, or travel around the world, and end up involved in political matters of another kingdom, which could make a new novel. Oh, the creativity is taking over me...

Shokou wrote:Yeah. I wish she stayed around to help Youko build her kingdom, or travel around the world, and end up involved in political matters of another kingdom, which could make a new novel. Oh, the creativity is taking over me...

I'm not sure that she'd be of much practical use to Youko. She doesn't have the skills or aptitudes for goverment. It would have been useful for Youko to have a trustworthy friend, but that's all she could be. Without her Hinman, she's not useful in a fight and she doesn't have any administrative or political skills.

Mind you, I'd quite like to see her return to the Twelve Kingdoms. Perhaps accompanied by Taiki's brother, Youko's parents and a police detective who's been investigating why her friends tend to mysteriously disappear . . .

Or perhaps she could buy books in History, politics, technology and economics and pass them on to Keiki . . .

Hmmm...the way she is now, indeed, she would not be of use to Yoko, but I think of her being sent again and traveling around the world, possibly getting involved with the Taiki affair, or a political affair in an underdveloped kingdom. She could become a Suzu there(by which I mean, kaikyaku, but immortal and manages to find her way into the world).

That's the thing though, we already have a Suzu: Suzu, with 100 years extra experience. (Mostly wasted, but hey.) Plus Shoukei and Rakushun.

I sometimes wonder if the animation stopped because they realized the convenient changes they'd made early on get in the way of making the Youko/Taiki novel make sense. I get the impression Yuka/Asano weren't meant to be big changes, just people to flesh out the part of the first novel where Youko's basically running around by herself. But they ended up working her into Taiki's plot, and having Keiki bring her over/send her back, which will require some massaging of the last novel.

(Speaking of fleshing out, all the shusei scenes are made up; in the novel, it was "Youko worked odd jobs for a few months, until she had to start living in the wild again to avoid guards" as she makes her way to the port. And the boat ride is totally uneventful. Made up well, mind you.)

Asano had been separated long before Youko met the shusei. Well, there was that scene with the mother and girl, I guess, but I forget how much got learned there, or if they were even the same shusei who took in Asano.

Going crazy because the whole world seems to have gone crazy doesn't seem necessarily unrealistic to me; we don't have much to judge it by. The part that never made sense is how hard it's supposed to be to learn the language. Basic nouns and verbs, yes? Fluency might be hard but not minimal communication. The one save is that, well --

12K language is weird. Immortals have a universal translator, which seems super convenient, right? But mortal Shoukei crossed the world without language problems. The kingdoms seem the size of China, any one should have multiple dialects, never mind the whole world, but they seem to all speak one language, so the immortal ability only comes in with kaikyaku/youma/people with mangled throats. Given only one language, the populace might be short on the concept of "adults who have to learn the language", or anything like linguistics. (OTOH, everyone seems to know vaguely about kaikyaku, so...)

mindstalk wrote:That's the thing though, we already have a Suzu: Suzu, with 100 years extra experience. (Mostly wasted, but hey.) Plus Shoukei and Rakushun.

I sometimes wonder if the animation stopped because they realized the convenient changes they'd made early on get in the way of making the Youko/Taiki novel make sense. I get the impression Yuka/Asano weren't meant to be big changes, just people to flesh out the part of the first novel where Youko's basically running around by herself. But they ended up working her into Taiki's plot, and having Keiki bring her over/send her back, which will require some massaging of the last novel.

Good points. That's why I would prefer her to be sent back, but to be part of a story involving another kingdom. They don't need to make her into a second Suzu either, she can like...hmmm...join the army for one of the provinces, or rebel factions, and rise up to the big conflict.

mindstalk wrote:(Speaking of fleshing out, all the shusei scenes are made up; in the novel, it was "Youko worked odd jobs for a few months, until she had to start living in the wild again to avoid guards" as she makes her way to the port. And the boat ride is totally uneventful. Made up well, mind you.)

Asano had been separated long before Youko met the shusei. Well, there was that scene with the mother and girl, I guess, but I forget how much got learned there, or if they were even the same shusei who took in Asano.

Aww, I liked the shusei. They are realistic, don't you think? People need entertainment, so there are groups of wandering artists to give people entertainment...I remember Chuutatsu wanted to "limit their travels" in Hou so the people would "stop having excessive pleasure". I wonder if the anime made that up as well. And they helped Suzu and Asano, so I like them. D: And that cute bearded middle-aged man named Kotetsu who talked to Yoko about his sister has potential! <_<

mindstalk wrote:Going crazy because the whole world seems to have gone crazy doesn't seem necessarily unrealistic to me; we don't have much to judge it by. The part that never made sense is how hard it's supposed to be to learn the language. Basic nouns and verbs, yes? Fluency might be hard but not minimal communication. The one save is that, well --

12K language is weird. Immortals have a universal translator, which seems super convenient, right? But mortal Shoukei crossed the world without language problems. The kingdoms seem the size of China, any one should have multiple dialects, never mind the whole world, but they seem to all speak one language, so the immortal ability only comes in with kaikyaku/youma/people with mangled throats. Given only one language, the populace might be short on the concept of "adults who have to learn the language", or anything like linguistics. (OTOH, everyone seems to know vaguely about kaikyaku, so...)

I think Ono didn't think much here. << But people seemed to notice Shoukei had a "higher level" of speak around her travels, so at least it's confirmed Ono didn't make all people having the exact same dialect. And I guess the language is hard to learn because of the cultural differences...that man in En who revealed Yoko's identity told Sugimoto he needed years to learn it. Uh...it could be that Asano had a mental barrier against the language, due to his understandable insanity.

Yes, the shusei were well done.

Suzu didn't seem to learn the language either, in her 3 years before becoming sennin. I mean, the impression I get isn't that she was still a poor speaker, but that she hadn't learned anything. Weird.

mindstalk wrote:12K language is weird. Immortals have a universal translator, which seems super convenient, right? But mortal Shoukei crossed the world without language problems. The kingdoms seem the size of China, any one should have multiple dialects, never mind the whole world, but they seem to all speak one language, so the immortal ability only comes in with kaikyaku/youma/people with mangled throats. Given only one language, the populace might be short on the concept of "adults who have to learn the language", or anything like linguistics. (OTOH, everyone seems to know vaguely about kaikyaku, so...)

Yes. I'm suprised that the twelve kingdoms seem to all have the same language. China didn't have a common spoken language until recently, and I'm not sure if they do now. The last time I tried to ask someone, he got really offended and said that there was only one Chinese language (from which I deduced he was from mainland China). The immortal translator trick would make this worse - because there isn't a high status court language to attract the ambitious.

Pre-modern language patterns were quite different from modern ones, where you have sudden changes at national borders. Instead you tended to get far less abrupt changes, with dialects and languages blending into one another.

I got the impression that the major source of Suzu's problems was that she was too embarrassed to get things wrong. She didn't want to speak badly, so she'd prefer not to speak than to speak in mangled grammar, which means that she had no chance to learn to speak well.

Mind you, every Kaiyaku seems to have had great difficulty with the language. This implies that the language is either very difficult to people not used to it or the language teachers are really bad.

Once again... Asano rises from the grave after 6 years of being dead!

MWAHHAHAAHA

Asano
- loon -

Yay, someone with Asano in the name! :D It's a real pity I have never seen fanart of Asano, much less in his costume used in Kaze no Banri, Reimei no Sora. v_v

Speaking of it, I got one of my friends to start watching the series today, and after the first episode, he remarked on how he liked Asano's calm and charming personality. He's in for a surprise!

Asano is primarily there to act as a foil for the three girls: Yoko, Suzu, and Shokei. He is the character who demonstrates that success in the world of the Twelve Kingdoms is not assured - some come through, some fail and go under. (So, if you've ever though that you'd like to go there, remember his case.)

How he loses his way is interestingly depicted, although something seems to be missing when Suzu first encounters him with the travelling players. He is already deluding at that point, and we don't see how that came about. But his getting mixed up with the deleriously evil Shoko is a superb plot twist that might remind some viewers of Edmund and the White Witch in The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. His fate is premonitory. Not everyone has Yoko's luck.

In "The Lion, the witch and the Wardrobe", being a human from earth makes you special, a son or daughter of Adam, grants you the favour of God and means that you are someone special and significant.

In "The Twelve Kingdoms", unless you also happen to be a monarch or kirin, it means that you are a weird foreigner who can't speak the language and are often considered responsible for a natural disaster.

One problem is that we don't see much of Asano's degeneration. When he is seperated from Youko, he's still largely normal, but getting undeniably stressed out. When we see him with the Shusei group, it's several months later, maybe six. He's nuts, which can be explained by how long he's been isolated, but we don't see him actually change.