Qs about inconsistencies: Aging, eyes-closed/Hinman, etc.

Shadowbard · Post by **Shadowbard** » Sun Jun 22, 2003 7:15 pm

No, I wasn't being sarcastic. En-Ou's hair got longer very quickly. Asano's been there for a year and hasn't been cutting his hair. That's why his is longer.

~Shadrach Anki

MegaDuck · Post by **MegaDuck** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 1:14 pm

The Emp of En did not attack Kei, he Loaned his Soldiers to the Emp of Kei to quell a rebeillion. The troups where tecnically Youko's so En was not attacking Kei it was doing a favor for the Empress of Kei.

The 12k is a mix of chinese and japaness, In Ep 23 the emp of Hou and his familly are eating dinner in the japaness fassion (Single Meals for everyone) they also use Japaness chopsticks in the 12k. The Archetecure and the Kirin are both chinese. So it is a mix of both cultures.

kaikyaku · Post by **kaikyaku** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 5:25 am

There's something bothering me :

in ep 14, at 8"34, while speaking about rankas, rakushun states the following :
'And in the palace, only the emperor may pray to the tree.'

So what does he mean, since it is well known emperors/empress can't have children, like enho explained it to youko in ep 33, at 8"37 :
'but since rulers are not human ...
Even if they wish for one, a ranka will not grow.'

So, What do you think about that ?

drifterx · Post by **drifterx** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:07 am

There's also a case when the chosen emperor already have children from a previous marriage. We need more info on the emperor's limits, as well as the prerequisites for having children. It can't be all praying.

garamir · Post by **garamir** » Tue Jul 01, 2003 7:51 pm

drifterx wrote:as well as the prerequisites for having children. It can't be all praying. :D

You're right. The couple has to be married, and they have to move to one or the other's land.

St0rmD · Post by **St0rmD** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:57 am

rakucho wrote:We also see that when keiki had the seal placed on him, the hinman was the only one who wasn't trapped. I'll let shinkun and tentei explain this one.

I got the impression that the Kirin kept their shirei packed away in hammerspace somewhere and could summon them forth at will. Since Keiki was himself sealed, he couldn't summon them, and they couldn't summon themselves. Jyouyuu was already at large at that point, so was free to act.

I had another question regarding Jyouyuu though. In epsiode 8, when the Chouryuu attacked the flock of Koucho who were attacking the ship, Sugimoto's hinman was apparently drawn out of her, and zapped by the Chouryuu as were all the other youma. We don't see much of Youko at this time, but why wasn't Jyouyuu targeted at all? Presumably the Chouryuu, not being under any Kirin's control, would attack all of the present youma indescriminately, correct?

Any guesses as to why this is, or is it just a plot-hole left open by the author?

And for amusing purely artistic bloopers, in the scene where Youka shows Taiki the map of the 12 kingdoms, Hou, Kei, and Kou are blackened out, although they all had active emperors at the time:

They fixed the error later in the scene though:

My guess is that they incorrectly used the wrong background painting, grabbing the one that was supposed to be for the scene where Youka brings Youko to the same map. At that time, Hou, Kei, Kou and Tai were all without emperors

BTW, we know where Taiki is, but isn't it strange that Kou and Hou both have dead Kirin but only one Rankin is on the Shashinboku?

bigfire · Post by **bigfire** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:23 pm

rakucho wrote:As for the invasion of kei, I believe Tentei's original goal is to prevent one emperor from invading another country with the INTENT of conquest. However, if he was doing so for the sake of the country's true ruler (such as this case), done with good intention, then i guess a little rule can be bent here and there somewhat. Hell, i bend the rule for you guys all the time in IRC don't I? ^__^

And in this case, the rightful ruler actually requested the assistance, so, it isn't an invasion, but a borrowed army lead by the actual sovereign.

uchuujin · Post by **uchuujin** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 3:33 pm

[quote=St0rmD]My guess is that they incorrectly used the wrong background painting, grabbing the one that was supposed to be for the scene where Youka brings Youko to the same map. At that time, Hou, Kei, Kou and Tai were all without emperors [/quote]

I'd rather tell that they didn't do it wrong. Remember that this scene happend 10 years before yoko came to this place and at this time, Hou and Kou were already about to collapse. In the case of Kei, someone (don't remember who) told that the previous Kei emperor reigned for 6 years so before that Kei was also an all beaten up kingdom

So the discolourings must rather show the current status of the country than the presence of the emperor.

drifterx · Post by **drifterx** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 7:46 pm

St0rmD wrote:I had another question regarding Jyouyuu though. In epsiode 8, when the Chouryuu attacked the flock of Koucho who were attacking the ship, Sugimoto's hinman was apparently drawn out of her, and zapped by the Chouryuu as were all the other youma. We don't see much of Youko at this time, but why wasn't Jyouyuu targeted at all? Presumably the Chouryuu, not being under any Kirin's control, would attack all of the present youma indescriminately, correct?

Any guesses as to why this is, or is it just a plot-hole left open by the author?

Interesting observation, I was wondering about this too. I'm guessing, and this is from bad memory since it's been a while since I saw that episode, that Jyooyuu was ordered never to leave Youko under any circumstances and that may have protected him somehow. The other hinman probably panicked... or maybe that sort of thing has never happened before and so neither hinman knew how to react and Jyouyuu just happened to luck out. It looked to me that Sugimoto's hinman was trying to get out... or am I remembering it wrong?

bigfire · Post by **bigfire** » Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:02 pm

drifterx wrote:
St0rmD wrote:I had another question regarding Jyouyuu though. In epsiode 8, when the Chouryuu attacked the flock of Koucho who were attacking the ship, Sugimoto's hinman was apparently drawn out of her, and zapped by the Chouryuu as were all the other youma. We don't see much of Youko at this time, but why wasn't Jyouyuu targeted at all? Presumably the Chouryuu, not being under any Kirin's control, would attack all of the present youma indescriminately, correct?

Any guesses as to why this is, or is it just a plot-hole left open by the author?

Interesting observation, I was wondering about this too. I'm guessing, and this is from bad memory since it's been a while since I saw that episode, that Jyooyuu was ordered never to leave Youko under any circumstances and that may have protected him somehow. The other hinman probably panicked... or maybe that sort of thing has never happened before and so neither hinman knew how to react and Jyouyuu just happened to luck out. It looked to me that Sugimoto's hinman was trying to get out... or am I remembering it wrong?

Well in that instance, the dragon simply consumed ALL nearby youma. Youko was just lucky that her youma didn't get sucked down for lunch.

garamir · Post by **garamir** » Tue Jul 29, 2003 2:00 am

drifterx wrote:I'm guessing, and this is from bad memory since it's been a while since I saw that episode, that Jyooyuu was ordered never to leave Youko under any circumstances and that may have protected him somehow. The other hinman probably panicked... or maybe that sort of thing has never happened before and so neither hinman knew how to react and Jyouyuu just happened to luck out. It looked to me that Sugimoto's hinman was trying to get out... or am I remembering it wrong?

I was guessing something along those lines as well. Assuming it wasn't just a really glaring hole, it's possible that since Jyouyuu was ordered to say silent and inactive except in emergencies, he was less visible to the dragon. Not a great explanation, but if it happened to be zapping all the enraged youma in the area, Sugimoto's might still have been concentrating either on fighting or getting out of there, while Youko's escaped notice.

saiki · Post by **saiki** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:02 am

This is my first post, so please take mercy on me if I say something wrong, or act ignorant!

I remember that at one point in the series, that teacher-dude tells Yuka that no Kirin has ever recovered from shitsudou. But we know that Keki recovered!

Can anyone clear this up?

Thanks!

bigfire · Post by **bigfire** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:22 am

saiki wrote:This is my first post, so please take mercy on me if I say something wrong, or act ignorant!

I remember that at one point in the series, that teacher-dude tells Yuka that no Kirin has ever recovered from shitsudou. But we know that Keki recovered!

Can anyone clear this up?
Thanks!

No. Once a kirin havecame down with Shitsudou, it is very difficult for a kirin to recover. Basically his/her sovereign has to amend their error. The only certain way for that to happened is for them to resign from the throne (ie, go to Mount Hou and ritualistically kill themself).

What the teacher said is, no sovereign has managed to amend his way enough, other than to die for kirin to recover.

oion · Post by **oion** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:58 am

So is this another wayward translation? I remember the eps in question (I think I had two versions) were subbed to the effect that "no kirin has recovered from shitsudou," but maybe that was out of context. Oh well.

(Didn't realize this thread was being kept alive. Poor, wretched thing. Hehehe.

)

Ostsol · Post by **Ostsol** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:46 am

It might be that the context was a little messed up. Perhaps no kirin has ever recovered from the shitsudou as a result of the Emperor/Empress suddenly changing his/her ways. . .

Ahiru · Post by **Ahiru** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:17 am

I remember that at one point in the series, that teacher-dude tells Yuka that no Kirin has ever recovered from shitsudou. But we know that Keki recovered!

Did he actually fall sick, or did the empress erm... "quit" before he actually fell sick? We are told she resigned so Keiki wouldn't die, but I don't remember them saying he actually had shitsudou?
(my memory is not too good for these things...)

Ahiru

Ostsol · Post by **Ostsol** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 1:33 am

He had definitely fallen sick with the shitsudou. . . Anyways, I doubt that the empress would have resigned if she didn't think Keiki would die.

Ahiru · Post by **Ahiru** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:15 am

Anyways, I doubt that the empress would have resigned if she didn't think Keiki would die.

Maybe she had a revelation or something... After all, supposedly under all that psychosis she was supposed to have the basics for a good empress. ^^;;

Ahiru

St0rmD · Post by **St0rmD** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:00 pm

uchuujin wrote:
St0rmD wrote:My guess is that they incorrectly used the wrong background painting, grabbing the one that was supposed to be for the scene where Youka brings Youko to the same map. At that time, Hou, Kei, Kou and Tai were all without emperors
I'd rather tell that they didn't do it wrong. Remember that this scene happend 10 years before yoko came to this place and at this time, Hou and Kou were already about to collapse. In the case of Kei, someone (don't remember who) told that the previous Kei emperor reigned for 6 years so before that Kei was also an all beaten up kingdom
So the discolourings must rather show the current status of the country than the presence of the emperor.

And, while switching camera angles, suddenly things got back to normal in Kei and Kou and everything was hunky-dory for a few minutes?

Neko-chan · Post by **Neko-chan** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:59 pm

St0rmD wrote:
rakucho wrote:We also see that when keiki had the seal placed on him, the hinman was the only one who wasn't trapped. I'll let shinkun and tentei explain this one.
I got the impression that the Kirin kept their shirei packed away in hammerspace somewhere and could summon them forth at will. Since Keiki was himself sealed, he couldn't summon them, and they couldn't summon themselves. Jyouyuu was already at large at that point, so was free to act.

I had another question regarding Jyouyuu though. In epsiode 8, when the Chouryuu attacked the flock of Koucho who were attacking the ship, Sugimoto's hinman was apparently drawn out of her, and zapped by the Chouryuu as were all the other youma. We don't see much of Youko at this time, but why wasn't Jyouyuu targeted at all? Presumably the Chouryuu, not being under any Kirin's control, would attack all of the present youma indescriminately, correct?

Any guesses as to why this is, or is it just a plot-hole left open by the author?

I start to believe that Chouryuu may be one of Keiki's Shirei's.
1. in the opening of the series the is one pic that shows all of Keiki's Shirei's plus Chouryuu.
Seems he needs Water to live in it could be one reason why he's not got sealed with the others.
That would also explain why Yoko's Henman not got killed.

Seems Geocities not allow me to link any pic's directly

,here's the link to the webpage i put that pic up

http://www.geocities.com/aleandra_okiay ... 1588770546

well thats my guess to that mystery ^_^

hiragi-chan · Post by **hiragi-chan** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:34 pm

i saw that pic from the opening and was thinking the same thing.. i'm glad i'm not the only one ^^;

otherwise, why would he be in that pic?

oion · Post by **oion** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:06 am

Re: Chouryuu

But by ep13, remember that Keiki was still sealed - along with all his Shirei EXCEPT Jyouyu (which he states explicitly in ep13 - rakucho's explanation for Jyouyu makes sense). I think the OP picture is just for prettiness...

As for Chouryuu attacking Sugimoto's hinman - the way I interpreted that scene was that the Chouryuu was releasing random bolts of energy every which way, and Sugimoto just happened to be in the way of one, therefore her hinman jumped out to protect her at the last minute (but was destroyed in the process) - and we hear Kourin's voiceover telling Sugimoto to run for it. I didn't interpret the sea youma's attack to be particular, nor that Sugimoto's hinman was actually "drawn out," just that Sugimoto was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

JK Newbie · Post by **JK Newbie** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 6:12 pm

oion
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 3:06 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Chouryuu
But by ep13, remember that Keiki was still sealed - along with all his Shirei EXCEPT Jyouyu (which he states explicitly in ep13 - rakucho's explanation for Jyouyu makes sense). I think the OP picture is just for prettiness...

Does sound like a matter of proximity. Wouldn't rule out Chouryuu being one of the good guys if not now, then in the future. Be impressive if it/he/she was a Shirei to Keiki.

As for Chouryuu attacking Sugimoto's hinman - the way I interpreted that scene was that the Chouryuu was releasing random bolts of energy every which way, and Sugimoto just happened to be in the way of one, therefore her hinman jumped out to protect her at the last minute (but was destroyed in the process) - and we hear Kourin's voiceover telling Sugimoto to run for it. I didn't interpret the sea youma's attack to be particular, nor that Sugimoto's hinman was actually "drawn out," just that Sugimoto was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Agreed. Youko is unique, perhaps more than just an ordinary Taika. Her as yet undescribed powers may have protected her Hinman. OR it's still possible they are all Shirei to Keiki and are aware of each other's presence. Hmmmmm.

oion · Post by **oion** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:26 pm

Didn't Kourin try to talk Kou Ou out of attacking the ship in ep 8 or so? IIRC, she told him that sending out koucho or whatever to attack the ship may incite whatever sea youma - spoken generically. If the OP picture is the only thing that people think tie the sea youma to Keiki (and I still think my interpretation of Sugimoto's hinman is more reasonable) - I really don't think the sea youma would have anything to do with Keiki at all. Needing water shouldn't matter at all - Hinman by nature are water youma too, so that theory sinks. Youko has no special powers - never has - no emperor does (it's not X-men). Youko was just lucky, IMO. But feel free to adopt the sea youma, of course - imagination is a fun thing. I'm sure we'll never see it again in the future, or in the books, though. ^^

The Twelve Kingdoms Forum

Qs about inconsistencies: Aging, eyes-closed/Hinman, etc.

shitsudou

Re: shitsudou

Tricky scenes...