I hope 12k gets spread to more people.
How Juuni Kokki is viewed by the general public
Moderator: zitch
Dispite 12K being my favorite TV show of all time, I do see where it may have some faults for many people:
1) Some inconsistencies in animation. Though the series is, for the most part, richly illustrated, sometimes the drawing quality drops a bit, and some scenes just aren't animated well.
2) The series refrains from directly showing fight scenes and really bloody events (like executions and beheadings). You often only get to see the aftermath of a fight, and the series does make some use of the "pan around a static image of a battle" feature.
3) The story starts slow, and can be a bit angsty. Few, if any likeable characters on the first DVD. The story then becomes complex and potentially confusing in the last half of the series.
4) No music that really stands out in the series, except the opening and ending themes.
5) Not much humor. It has a very serious tone. No super-deformed character moments. No laughing your butt off scenes.
Then again, I find many of these "faults" to be the strength of the series. The action is dictated by the storyline, not the otherway around. The story requires you to pay attention, have a good memory span, and be patient, and episode 6 is really the "make-or-break" part for most people. Also having an understading of human history and psychology really helps with the story and identifying with the characters. The really beautifull (IMO) music, again, emphasizes scenes rather than overpowers them. Humor is injected naturally by the characters, rather than forced in by the anime.
These are all things that others may find as faults. Only thing that I can't really defend, even though I still find it above par to most other anime series, is the animation quality. That, IMO, is the weakest part of the series, but that suits me just fine.
1) Some inconsistencies in animation. Though the series is, for the most part, richly illustrated, sometimes the drawing quality drops a bit, and some scenes just aren't animated well.
2) The series refrains from directly showing fight scenes and really bloody events (like executions and beheadings). You often only get to see the aftermath of a fight, and the series does make some use of the "pan around a static image of a battle" feature.
3) The story starts slow, and can be a bit angsty. Few, if any likeable characters on the first DVD. The story then becomes complex and potentially confusing in the last half of the series.
4) No music that really stands out in the series, except the opening and ending themes.
5) Not much humor. It has a very serious tone. No super-deformed character moments. No laughing your butt off scenes.
Then again, I find many of these "faults" to be the strength of the series. The action is dictated by the storyline, not the otherway around. The story requires you to pay attention, have a good memory span, and be patient, and episode 6 is really the "make-or-break" part for most people. Also having an understading of human history and psychology really helps with the story and identifying with the characters. The really beautifull (IMO) music, again, emphasizes scenes rather than overpowers them. Humor is injected naturally by the characters, rather than forced in by the anime.
These are all things that others may find as faults. Only thing that I can't really defend, even though I still find it above par to most other anime series, is the animation quality. That, IMO, is the weakest part of the series, but that suits me just fine.
Last edited by zitch on Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think the only real problem with the series is that it does have long stretches in which there are no really likeable characters, and unfortunately that includes the beginning of the series where people get their first impressions of it. I like Youko, but only because I've seen the whole series now and know how she matures. At the beginning she was whiney and annoying. I think a lot of people give up on the series before it starts getting good.
The other long section with no likeable characters is where Suzu and Shoukei come in. That arc doesn't get any good until it starts focusing on Youko and her efforts to rule Kei. (I like Taiki's arc the best, and it's largely because there the lead protagonist is likeable from the outset.)
The other long section with no likeable characters is where Suzu and Shoukei come in. That arc doesn't get any good until it starts focusing on Youko and her efforts to rule Kei. (I like Taiki's arc the best, and it's largely because there the lead protagonist is likeable from the outset.)
That's a really good feature of the show. Even with a frequently violent storyline, it manages to keep the show focused on the story and characters without letting the violence take over and become a matter of just showing a lot of gore. It's often quite artful in how it manages to bring in the emotional impact of violence without having to resort to just an ugly display of it. (Not sure what this was doing in a list of faults, though, since it would almost universally be considered a positive bonus.)2) The series refrains from directly showing fight scenes and really bloody events (like executions and beheadings).
I should point out that these are really a list of things some people may find as faults. In fact, I think this is mostly a list of the strength of the series, and I like the focus on the "reactions to violence" rather than showing the violence itself.Niwashi2 wrote:That's a really good feature of the show. Even with a frequently violent storyline, it manages to keep the show focused on the story and characters without letting the violence take over and become a matter of just showing a lot of gore. It's often quite artful in how it manages to bring in the emotional impact of violence without having to resort to just an ugly display of it. (Not sure what this was doing in a list of faults, though, since it would almost universally be considered a positive bonus.)2) The series refrains from directly showing fight scenes and really bloody events (like executions and beheadings).
And as for likeable characters, I find characters that you can identify with and understand to be more important and interesting than simply likeable characters. In this case, watching a female version of yourself from high school can really catch your attention, as it did for me. And every other character is understandable and logically human (and being facets of yourself, even the "bad" characters) really made this series come alive for me.
I think one of the main strengths of Juuni Kokki is the flawed characters of the characters--even at the end, you can see a lot of potential for further growth in Youko and the other characters. It sort of keeps it real for people, and that appeals to us by giving points of commonality with the characters. I mean, come to think of it, you can't really hate Shoukei if you put yourself in her shoes: she really believed her father was the best king there was (and he probably would have been, if he hadn't been that strict), which was partially why she couldn't understand why people hated him.
I guess I was lucky when Arts Central was showing the first 5 episodes and I missed 2-4...I missed out most of the whiney parts and got to the good stuff and fell in love at once. I only got to watch the episodes in retrospective and I think that made me appreciate Youko's character development more.
I guess I was lucky when Arts Central was showing the first 5 episodes and I missed 2-4...I missed out most of the whiney parts and got to the good stuff and fell in love at once. I only got to watch the episodes in retrospective and I think that made me appreciate Youko's character development more.
Indeed, one of the major themes in the series is perspective. When you understand what the person is seeing and has experienced, their thoughts and actions become completely realistic.
And you're right about everybody still having flaws at the end. That makes them feel like humans to us. Even "Can do no wrong" Rakushun had flaws, namely, his idealism to a fault. You see it when his friend announced his retirement from the school to him. Even so, he is a person that you would want by your side to keep you on the right path.
I would not have had the same appreciation for the series if I hadn't watched the series in order at first. Then again, I also tend to stick through a series even if I don't like it at first, though 12 K really did get my attention and appreciation from the onset. Watching through those first 5 episodes made me love the series even more.
And you're right about everybody still having flaws at the end. That makes them feel like humans to us. Even "Can do no wrong" Rakushun had flaws, namely, his idealism to a fault. You see it when his friend announced his retirement from the school to him. Even so, he is a person that you would want by your side to keep you on the right path.
I would not have had the same appreciation for the series if I hadn't watched the series in order at first. Then again, I also tend to stick through a series even if I don't like it at first, though 12 K really did get my attention and appreciation from the onset. Watching through those first 5 episodes made me love the series even more.
I had to post this and laugh... I got it off of amazon.com on Chapter 2 DVD.
0 of 13 people found the following review helpful:
Poor Epic Series, January 17, 2004
Reviewer: "the_enchanted" (OH United States) - See all my reviews
Before you read this review, I'd like you to know that I have seen the ENTIRE series of Twelve Kingdoms. I am reviewing this anime as a whole.
Twelve Kingdoms is an epic anime that revolves around a girl Youko who was transported to another world along with her 2 friends. Youko is told by a white blond who tells her that she is born to be a king who is to rebuild her country and save the people from poverty. The world of Twelve Kingdoms is designed this way--Every Kingdom has a king who is immortal as long as he is fair and good to his people and country. The king is chosen by a magical beast, the beast thus will obey every order of the king and assist him to glory. However, if the king has turned corrupted, the magical beast will fall ill and eventually die as the king will die not long after. ok..no more spoiling.
Anyway. If anybody tells you this is like Fushigi Yugi, don't fall for it, because Twelve Kingdoms is completely different from FY for it does not have a romance, or even a romance hint at all. Its plot is very loosely constructed. Half of the story is consisted of past memory, on top of which, the character are poorly designed and not very well developed. Its incomplete ending leaves me in confusion, many questions unmasked. For ex. some interesting characters actually appears in the middle of the story, without any explanation, the anime just cease to talk about what happen to them. In addition to that, there is no theme song, just a piece of dull music with retarded, let me repeat, retarded pictures. The ending is also very unrealistic in terms of emotions, the main character Youko decides to stay in the kingdom for the people and her country and thus abandoning all her friends and family in the other world. It could be that I am a emotional person, I feel like her decision is beyond imagination, also, throughout the story, Youko never even mentions her family after maybe the 12th episodes.
Again, if you are a Shoujo fan, like me, this anime is definitely not for you. If you are a EVA fan, this anime will seem cheap for you because its organization and plot is no comparison to EVA.
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And yes, I bolded parts that I though were particularly entertaining. The far majority of the reviews on amazon are in high praise of this series..
Ah well, one of many people that didn't "get" this series, not that it's really that difficult to "get"...
0 of 13 people found the following review helpful:
Poor Epic Series, January 17, 2004
Reviewer: "the_enchanted" (OH United States) - See all my reviews
Before you read this review, I'd like you to know that I have seen the ENTIRE series of Twelve Kingdoms. I am reviewing this anime as a whole.
Twelve Kingdoms is an epic anime that revolves around a girl Youko who was transported to another world along with her 2 friends. Youko is told by a white blond who tells her that she is born to be a king who is to rebuild her country and save the people from poverty. The world of Twelve Kingdoms is designed this way--Every Kingdom has a king who is immortal as long as he is fair and good to his people and country. The king is chosen by a magical beast, the beast thus will obey every order of the king and assist him to glory. However, if the king has turned corrupted, the magical beast will fall ill and eventually die as the king will die not long after. ok..no more spoiling.
Anyway. If anybody tells you this is like Fushigi Yugi, don't fall for it, because Twelve Kingdoms is completely different from FY for it does not have a romance, or even a romance hint at all. Its plot is very loosely constructed. Half of the story is consisted of past memory, on top of which, the character are poorly designed and not very well developed. Its incomplete ending leaves me in confusion, many questions unmasked. For ex. some interesting characters actually appears in the middle of the story, without any explanation, the anime just cease to talk about what happen to them. In addition to that, there is no theme song, just a piece of dull music with retarded, let me repeat, retarded pictures. The ending is also very unrealistic in terms of emotions, the main character Youko decides to stay in the kingdom for the people and her country and thus abandoning all her friends and family in the other world. It could be that I am a emotional person, I feel like her decision is beyond imagination, also, throughout the story, Youko never even mentions her family after maybe the 12th episodes.
Again, if you are a Shoujo fan, like me, this anime is definitely not for you. If you are a EVA fan, this anime will seem cheap for you because its organization and plot is no comparison to EVA.
Was this review helpful to you? (Report this)
And yes, I bolded parts that I though were particularly entertaining. The far majority of the reviews on amazon are in high praise of this series..
Ah well, one of many people that didn't "get" this series, not that it's really that difficult to "get"...
Not liking a series isn't the same as not getting it. Nearly all the things this reviewer objected to are true, and the others are just opinion. I love the series, but there's no denying that it does in fact have a very loose plot that jumps around between various storylines in various different eras. The only common thread tying them together is the world that they're all set in. And the ending is incomplete and does leave a lot of questions unanswered. (We gripe often enough in this forum about wanting an end to the Tai arc. Why is it odd for a reviewer to complain about the same thing?) And Youko does in fact choose Kei over her family. I don't blame her. After all, she has real responsibilities to Kei and can do something useful there, but the break with her family would still be hard for some people to accept.zitch wrote:Ah well, one of many people that didn't "get" this series, not that it's really that difficult to "get"...
About the only things in here that could be argued with is the reviewer's claims that the characters are poorly designed and the theme song is worthless. I disagree with both those opinions, but it's the nature of opinions that disagreement doesn't make either side wrong.
Niwashi2: All good points. Sometimes I let my fanboyism take over my good sense. That and bordom at work (Not more EDI stuff... Arrrghhh!!). But in the end, what you said and much of that review is factually correct; everything else is opinions.
And this is a "How Juuni Kokki is viewed by the general public" topic. I'd say the far majority of it is very favorable to this series.
In the end, I'm almost convinced to write up my own review, and use much of the material written here as a basis of as objective a review as I can make, good and bad, about the series, without spoiling the series at all. (Not an easy task by anymeans, but I want to lay it out for people.) This was a rare series that I took up watching because of it was recommended on another forum as "excellent story and realistic characters". That was it; just one post. Of course, this got my attention as everything else on that particular topic was saying "this series has great animation, that series has awesome music, this one has a really likeable hero/villian, etc.". This was 2-3 years ago while the series was still being fansubbed (I think it had 42 or so episodes out at that time).
In the end, I'm very glad I looked this series up and watched it without reading any other review on it. And it hooked me from the beginning, mainly because if that "Wow... that's pretty much what I would have done too!" effect...
And this is a "How Juuni Kokki is viewed by the general public" topic.
I'd say the far majority of it is very favorable to this series. In the end, I'm almost convinced to write up my own review, and use much of the material written here as a basis of as objective a review as I can make, good and bad, about the series, without spoiling the series at all. (Not an easy task by anymeans, but I want to lay it out for people.) This was a rare series that I took up watching because of it was recommended on another forum as "excellent story and realistic characters". That was it; just one post. Of course, this got my attention as everything else on that particular topic was saying "this series has great animation, that series has awesome music, this one has a really likeable hero/villian, etc.". This was 2-3 years ago while the series was still being fansubbed (I think it had 42 or so episodes out at that time).
In the end, I'm very glad I looked this series up and watched it without reading any other review on it. And it hooked me from the beginning, mainly because if that "Wow... that's pretty much what I would have done too!" effect...
There's other superficial reasons for the comparison. Main characters are school girls at around 16 years of age that are "the one" in this other world. Friend becomes an antagonist. Friend was also manipulated by others in this different world to become an antagonist to the heroine. Chinese influences in the different world. Strange creatures in both. Both main characters struggle a bit in the beginning. Sadly, these are enough reasons for some people to say that JK is "just like" FY, even though the "soul" of each series is starkly different.thesmokingman wrote:One more comment about that review.
I thank god everytime I rewatch the series that it isn't like Fushigi Yugi. Never really got the comparison there other than being transported to a different world.Anyway. If anybody tells you this is like Fushigi Yugi, don't fall for it, because Twelve Kingdoms is completely different from FY
And one of the more amusing reviews on AnimeNFO
Isokana (2005-01-26 18:11:36) 2005-01-26 18:07:39
Average 9.0
Animation 8
Sound 9
Story 8
Character 10
Value 9
Enjoyment 10
A girl travels to another world where she's something special. And has some bishounens surround her. Hmm? What? Only _two_ bishounens and a rat?! And no one seems gay?! What is this!? Well, it's definitely not Fushigi Yuugi and I'm happy about it.
The best feature of Juuni Kokki is the amazing fantasy world. The way rulers are selected, the way life is created, the mystical creatures, they combine to make the series a journey of constant discovery. The animation is good. It took me a little time to get used to the characters designs but I learned like them. Music goes well with the fantasy theme.
Also Juuni Kokki has a strong cast with varying personalities. I loved the way Yoko changed her views during the story, going back from time to time but still making advances in the long run. Sugimoto was great with her betrayed dreams. What would you do when, after teleported to an other world, you would notice that you didn't get any special powers despite all the anime that tells otherwise? Shock! The good characters go on with almost everyone with. Asano, the two girls from the second to last arc, Shoryo, Rokuta, everyone, they are characters I found immensily appealing. Everyone has their motivation and everyone changes as their stories are told.
The story itself is an interesting mix of exploration of the new world and political scheming. Mostly it is well done and I was hooked from the first episode on but there some things that seem pointless. Like the story of Taiki. I felt it had no real purpose, especially when it came to no conclusion. Same with the last arc and story from Shoryo's and Rokuta's past. Again a nice story but doesn't fit in the big picture particularly when it's the last arc. I gather that this was supposed to be a longer series (at least 68 episodes) and these are just symptons of it. Still I wish they had used the episodes to take Yoko's story forward.
Juuni Kokki is a great series, more similar to Escaflowne than to Fushigi Yuugi. I would say Juuni Kokki handles things on a more personal and smaller scale than Escaflowne, it's the future of one kingdom depending on one person, not a great plot to destroy the whole world or the Earth. Despite those "pointless" episodes this one goes to excellent category thanks to the fascinating world they present.
Average 9.0
Animation 8
Sound 9
Story 8
Character 10
Value 9
Enjoyment 10
A girl travels to another world where she's something special. And has some bishounens surround her. Hmm? What? Only _two_ bishounens and a rat?! And no one seems gay?! What is this!? Well, it's definitely not Fushigi Yuugi and I'm happy about it.
The best feature of Juuni Kokki is the amazing fantasy world. The way rulers are selected, the way life is created, the mystical creatures, they combine to make the series a journey of constant discovery. The animation is good. It took me a little time to get used to the characters designs but I learned like them. Music goes well with the fantasy theme.
Also Juuni Kokki has a strong cast with varying personalities. I loved the way Yoko changed her views during the story, going back from time to time but still making advances in the long run. Sugimoto was great with her betrayed dreams. What would you do when, after teleported to an other world, you would notice that you didn't get any special powers despite all the anime that tells otherwise? Shock! The good characters go on with almost everyone with. Asano, the two girls from the second to last arc, Shoryo, Rokuta, everyone, they are characters I found immensily appealing. Everyone has their motivation and everyone changes as their stories are told.
The story itself is an interesting mix of exploration of the new world and political scheming. Mostly it is well done and I was hooked from the first episode on but there some things that seem pointless. Like the story of Taiki. I felt it had no real purpose, especially when it came to no conclusion. Same with the last arc and story from Shoryo's and Rokuta's past. Again a nice story but doesn't fit in the big picture particularly when it's the last arc. I gather that this was supposed to be a longer series (at least 68 episodes) and these are just symptons of it. Still I wish they had used the episodes to take Yoko's story forward.
Juuni Kokki is a great series, more similar to Escaflowne than to Fushigi Yuugi. I would say Juuni Kokki handles things on a more personal and smaller scale than Escaflowne, it's the future of one kingdom depending on one person, not a great plot to destroy the whole world or the Earth. Despite those "pointless" episodes this one goes to excellent category thanks to the fascinating world they present.
I have put up a review of Twelve Kingdoms on AnimeNFO. Hopefully it's not too wordy... It is extremely long. I tried to put in everything I've thought of relating to this series. It's also the framework that I want to do reviews for other series, though not necessarily this wordy.. In the end, I want to describe how a series felt without spoiling the story.
http://www.animenfo.com/review.php?id=8 ... type=anime
Alot of the discussion here help me form this review, and I even took an example that thesmokingman gave. Hope that's ok to do...
In the end, I want to describe how a series felt without spoiling the story.http://www.animenfo.com/review.php?id=8 ... type=anime
Alot of the discussion here help me form this review, and I even took an example that thesmokingman gave. Hope that's ok to do...
I'm getting a general feeling that Twelve Kingdoms is slowly gaining momentum around the english-speaking net. Most major anime forums seem to have a decent population of people with this series as a favorite, and many people seems to have at least heard of it if they hadn't seen it.
It's largely like Visions of Escaflowne, which came out right between Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop and almost most got buried under those two series, but over time gained momentum and is generally regarded as highly a popular anime from the 90s these days.
Now to do the same for The Crest/Banner of the Stars series...
It's largely like Visions of Escaflowne, which came out right between Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop and almost most got buried under those two series, but over time gained momentum and is generally regarded as highly a popular anime from the 90s these days.
Now to do the same for The Crest/Banner of the Stars series...
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Mercury Omega
- Kaikyaku
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At least Banner/Crest of the Stars had several runs at G4/Tech TV's Anime Unleashed block. If only we could get Junni Kokki to be broadcast at any of the channels that have Anime in their lineups. I mean, we had AZN broadcast the Utena movie, Now and then, here and there, Sol Bianca and Yami No Matsuei. I think Twelve Kingdoms would be perfect for their more adult block. I wouldn't mind G4/TechTV either. They're both good choices in the sense they're not looking for the latest fad in Anime (AdultSwim, cough!), but are willing to give good yet not that known series a chance.
And whoever sees similarities between Fugishi Yugi and Twelve Kingdoms is likely to be surprised as the series progresses. Similarities end very fast and after the first three chapters you say "Fugishi what? How I dared to compare them?"
And whoever sees similarities between Fugishi Yugi and Twelve Kingdoms is likely to be surprised as the series progresses. Similarities end very fast and after the first three chapters you say "Fugishi what? How I dared to compare them?"
Last edited by Mercury Omega on Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Every day above ground is a special day."
Sara Pezzini, Witchblade, the TV show
Shameless self promotion:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/115597/
Sara Pezzini, Witchblade, the TV show
Shameless self promotion:
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/115597/
Um-m...Sorry, i'm a newby here. I didn't found any thread for newbies, so...decided to post here.
I caught TK on TV by an accident. There was nothing else interesting so i decided to give it a chance.
I never cared for anime genre (sorry ) or fantasy.
Actually, i started watching after 20-th episode and...got addicted.
Now i already saw the series i missed (specifically, the first arc) and have only 3 episodes out of 45 left unseen.
I just wanted to ask - i read the translated part of, if i understand correctly, the last novel from otaku site.
Those who was able to read it in japanese - does it complete the Taiki's story? (If there's already a thread for this, please, let me know.)
I caught TK on TV by an accident. There was nothing else interesting so i decided to give it a chance.
I never cared for anime genre (sorry
) or fantasy. Actually, i started watching after 20-th episode and...got addicted.
Now i already saw the series i missed (specifically, the first arc) and have only 3 episodes out of 45 left unseen.
I just wanted to ask - i read the translated part of, if i understand correctly, the last novel from otaku site.
Those who was able to read it in japanese - does it complete the Taiki's story? (If there's already a thread for this, please, let me know.)
beranda:
I believe that there might be a discussion or two about this in this forum. Either use the search or browse through the topics.
If you still don't find anything, try starting a new thread. A well titled thread will probably get more attention than trying to change the focus of an existing thread.
Through reading your post does bring up an interesting and on-topic point. I've been reading quite a bit about people who normally doesn't like anime really liking this series. Hell, you said that you don't care for fantasy and this series hooked you. This is a rare feat for any piece of media can do. To me, this suggests that Twelve Kingdoms really does have a universal appeal, and we're very fortunate that they did a rather good job with the English dub. I may have to try to convince my parents and a few other non-anime fans to give this series a try.
And there's nothing wrong with not liking anime. It can be an aquired taste, and even I can get tired of the normal anime cliches.
I believe that there might be a discussion or two about this in this forum. Either use the search or browse through the topics.
If you still don't find anything, try starting a new thread. A well titled thread will probably get more attention than trying to change the focus of an existing thread.
Through reading your post does bring up an interesting and on-topic point. I've been reading quite a bit about people who normally doesn't like anime really liking this series. Hell, you said that you don't care for fantasy and this series hooked you. This is a rare feat for any piece of media can do. To me, this suggests that Twelve Kingdoms really does have a universal appeal, and we're very fortunate that they did a rather good job with the English dub. I may have to try to convince my parents and a few other non-anime fans to give this series a try.
And there's nothing wrong with not liking anime. It can be an aquired taste, and even I can get tired of the normal anime cliches.
zitch
Thank you for reply.
Well, i mentioned the fact that i'm not anime/fantasy fan simply to explain a bit of my background. You see, i'm "a bit" older then the rest members of the forum and anime fans in general, and i didn't want to confuse anyone from the start.
At first it was also a mystery for me how come i fell in love with these series, when Lord of the Rings screen adaptations left me absolutely cold. Well, here, i know, i'm in definite minority.
So, i said to myself - it's just not my cup of tea. I simply don't "get" it. Maybe i'm just too old for such things.
As it appeares, it has nothing to do with the genre.
I love good stories and i love them even more when they are well told.
THEN! Then i don't care how much fantasy detailes they throw at me.
The Twelve Kingdoms isn't a kid's fare. I'm afraid it's also the part of its problem. This is an anime for grown ups. But most grown ups aren't interested in seeing "another fantasy anime". I tried to rave to my friends about it - noone has shown even the slightest interest in watching it. It's all kiddie's stuff for them. Very sad but true. Yet all of them went to see Star Wars or LOTR.
They simply don't consider even giving it a try.
And i can understand them - as i mentioned, i started watching TK by an accident, simply to kill a time one evening in front of TV set.
And while i liked the exotic (for me) settings, very soon i simply stoped paying attention to them - it was the story that stood up very clearly. As you mentioned - this is a universal story, without boundaries. The one that should be enjoyed by teenagers and grown ups equally. I could go on and on about it but my post is already too long.
By the way, those series are broadcasted here in Japanese, without dubbing, with subtitles only. At first i find it a bit unusual and weird, as i never heard Japanese in my life before, but after some time i get used to it.
I always prefer to hear the original language in the movie and i now i'm very glad i had the chance with TK as well. Seeing the Youko's transformation through her physical appearance AND voice is simply a sight to behold. Wonderful job by the voice-actress.
Thank you for reply.
Well, i mentioned the fact that i'm not anime/fantasy fan simply to explain a bit of my background. You see, i'm "a bit" older then the rest members of the forum and anime fans in general, and i didn't want to confuse anyone from the start.
At first it was also a mystery for me how come i fell in love with these series, when Lord of the Rings screen adaptations left me absolutely cold. Well, here, i know, i'm in definite minority.
So, i said to myself - it's just not my cup of tea. I simply don't "get" it. Maybe i'm just too old for such things.
As it appeares, it has nothing to do with the genre.
I love good stories and i love them even more when they are well told.
THEN! Then i don't care how much fantasy detailes they throw at me.
The Twelve Kingdoms isn't a kid's fare. I'm afraid it's also the part of its problem. This is an anime for grown ups. But most grown ups aren't interested in seeing "another fantasy anime". I tried to rave to my friends about it - noone has shown even the slightest interest in watching it. It's all kiddie's stuff for them. Very sad but true. Yet all of them went to see Star Wars or LOTR.
They simply don't consider even giving it a try.
And i can understand them - as i mentioned, i started watching TK by an accident, simply to kill a time one evening in front of TV set.
And while i liked the exotic (for me) settings, very soon i simply stoped paying attention to them - it was the story that stood up very clearly. As you mentioned - this is a universal story, without boundaries. The one that should be enjoyed by teenagers and grown ups equally. I could go on and on about it but my post is already too long.
By the way, those series are broadcasted here in Japanese, without dubbing, with subtitles only. At first i find it a bit unusual and weird, as i never heard Japanese in my life before, but after some time i get used to it.
I always prefer to hear the original language in the movie and i now i'm very glad i had the chance with TK as well. Seeing the Youko's transformation through her physical appearance AND voice is simply a sight to behold. Wonderful job by the voice-actress.
Yeah, whenever I ask people whenever they heard of "12 kingdoms", they said no.. so far only one of my friends saw it. >.< And when I show them the artwork, they were like o.O -looks like boring old chinese tale. Majority artwork of animes nowadays are quite different from 12k's.. 12k's art's more "traditional".. er more chinese? how to put it.. while most others are into futuristic, whatever themes. I think it isn't attractive enough to be picked up by people on the shelves but this is also what makes 12k uniqueBeranda wrote:I tried to rave to my friends about it - noone has shown even the slightest interest in watching it. It's all kiddie's stuff for them. Very sad but true. Yet all of them went to see Star Wars or LOTR.
LOTR didn't work for me too.Beranda wrote:At first it was also a mystery for me how come i fell in love with these series, when Lord of the Rings screen adaptations left me absolutely cold. Well, here, i know, i'm in definite minority.
I nearly doze off when I watched the 1st part, even when I tried to watch it again the 2nd time. No offense here but it made me feel bored. Most of my friends like it though. Maybe I should just continue watching the two towers and perhaps I'll like it. >_< But I like fantasies like Harry Potter 
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kevinsbane
- Ranka
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:07 am
I think the problem with the anime having a "loose" plotline is the fact that so much emphasis is put on Yoko at first. Rather, the focus is not Yoko at all, but the 12 kingdoms.
So we start off with Yoko, Yoko, Yoko for 15 episodes. Most animes stick to one main character. But 12K isn't about a main character. It's about the 12 Kingdoms. For me, if someone talks of a continuation of 12K, I expect not another story of Yoko (it'd be nice, but not what I really want), but I want a story of the other 6 kingdoms that haven't been explored.
In my opinion, 12K is just a huge history lesson. It's not a story. It's history. Granted, very entertaining history, but history nonetheless. History is a collection of stories, but is not a story in and of itself. People who complain about 12K having a loose plot, I think, simply miss that.
Kevinsbane
So we start off with Yoko, Yoko, Yoko for 15 episodes. Most animes stick to one main character. But 12K isn't about a main character. It's about the 12 Kingdoms. For me, if someone talks of a continuation of 12K, I expect not another story of Yoko (it'd be nice, but not what I really want), but I want a story of the other 6 kingdoms that haven't been explored.
In my opinion, 12K is just a huge history lesson. It's not a story. It's history. Granted, very entertaining history, but history nonetheless. History is a collection of stories, but is not a story in and of itself. People who complain about 12K having a loose plot, I think, simply miss that.
Kevinsbane
yuna-ling
Well, welcome to the club! There are now 2 of us who don't "get" LOTR. Maybe we'll find someone third in another 10 years.
kevinsbane
M-m-m...While i didn't have any problem with any storylines or plot in TK, i'd like to point something out.
I didn't love the series because they have "a historical" feeling to them.
I understand what you are saying, i have a soft spot for historical epics.
But very few of them actually work.
And if we'll look closer, those that do work aren't successfull because of getting the history right. It's because they got the characters we care about. We feel for them, we cry for for them, we cheer for them! And when we respond emotionally - we start to think and learn some lessons along the line.
That what the fine art does to us. Through the emotions it makes us think and revaluate OUR life.
You know, i saw here and there some complaints about "why does this anime concentrates so much on Youko, she's not the main character in the books".
Well, books are another media altogether. I won't argue with anyone that "books are better" than their screen adaptations. But movies (or anime) is an absolutely different media as well. What works so brilliantly in the books, many times, can't be translated onto the screen.
But, changing things here and there you can still obtain the essense of the novels without loosing the viewer's interest.
Look at the "Gone with the Wind" - the movie is different from the book, they had to change a lot and didn't include everything. But both the book and the movie are wonderful and considered as classics today.
The animators, i think, did a wonderful job of finding the central spine for the series - they decided to weave everything around Youko and give her story the main spotlight. Do you know why? Because it has the longest arc. And what an arc! She develops along 39 episodes as a person. Nothing ends when she finds out she's the queen of Kei and takes the throne - things just start rolling from here. Personally, i'd yet to see any movie or anime which succeeds so splendidly in telling you what happened to Cinderella after the wedding.
Yet, they still managed to retain the feeling that it's 12 kingdoms story, as you pointed out. There's so much going on besides the Youko's story and they make the viewer well-aware of it. There're no uninteresting characters here and they can continue the anime any time in any direction, without loosing Youko from the sight, simply to retain the feeling of wholeness of the story and keeping things in perspective.
Ouch...It was long! Sorry.
Well, welcome to the club!
There are now 2 of us who don't "get" LOTR. Maybe we'll find someone third in another 10 years. kevinsbane
M-m-m...While i didn't have any problem with any storylines or plot in TK, i'd like to point something out.
I didn't love the series because they have "a historical" feeling to them.
I understand what you are saying, i have a soft spot for historical epics.
But very few of them actually work.
And if we'll look closer, those that do work aren't successfull because of getting the history right. It's because they got the characters we care about. We feel for them, we cry for for them, we cheer for them! And when we respond emotionally - we start to think and learn some lessons along the line.
That what the fine art does to us. Through the emotions it makes us think and revaluate OUR life.
You know, i saw here and there some complaints about "why does this anime concentrates so much on Youko, she's not the main character in the books".
Well, books are another media altogether. I won't argue with anyone that "books are better" than their screen adaptations. But movies (or anime) is an absolutely different media as well. What works so brilliantly in the books, many times, can't be translated onto the screen.
But, changing things here and there you can still obtain the essense of the novels without loosing the viewer's interest.
Look at the "Gone with the Wind" - the movie is different from the book, they had to change a lot and didn't include everything. But both the book and the movie are wonderful and considered as classics today.
The animators, i think, did a wonderful job of finding the central spine for the series - they decided to weave everything around Youko and give her story the main spotlight. Do you know why? Because it has the longest arc. And what an arc! She develops along 39 episodes as a person. Nothing ends when she finds out she's the queen of Kei and takes the throne - things just start rolling from here. Personally, i'd yet to see any movie or anime which succeeds so splendidly in telling you what happened to Cinderella after the wedding.
Yet, they still managed to retain the feeling that it's 12 kingdoms story, as you pointed out. There's so much going on besides the Youko's story and they make the viewer well-aware of it. There're no uninteresting characters here and they can continue the anime any time in any direction, without loosing Youko from the sight, simply to retain the feeling of wholeness of the story and keeping things in perspective.
Ouch...It was long! Sorry.
beranda
I'd have to say, I'm not sure what you mean by "a bit" older. You see, I'm 26 years old, and it really feels like that I'm older than the average around here. Though if you check out the animeNFO.com forums, you'll find regulars that are in their late 30s and 40s. And where are you from that showed Twelve Kingdoms on TV subtitled?!? Obviously *not* in the U.S...
And I never watched the LOTR movies or read the novels. I probably will at some point, though.
One thing that people seem to gloss over in media today is storytelling. Storytelling in a video and audio composite is not just plot and characters. How those story and character are put on screen and through sound is important. This is what drew many people to the original Star Wars. It is probably why "Gone with the Wind" is considered a classic (I don't know, never read the book or saw the movie...). And storytelling is something that Twelve Kingdoms does really well. The only other thing I've ever seen match its level of storytelling is the Crest of the Stars anime (which I include the Banner of the Stars and Banner of the Stars II series in).
What's even more amazing about Twelve Kingdoms is that Youko still has room to grow. And there are many other interesting stories that can be told; one such story is Kouya's story after the events in Arc 4! What the hell happened to him to get to where you see him in the second arc!
And I'd have to say, Twelve Kingdoms is one of the few novel-to-TV/Movie adaptations that actually added a bit to the book: Sugimoto was only a minor character in the book, and Asano never existed at all in the novels! How those two characters are integrated so well into the story is nothing short of amazing. Why they were added to the anime makes alot of sense; the novel Youko was much more introspective and featured alot of internal dialog, something very difficult to convey on screen. So she gets "friends" that come with her that help her bounce thoughts off of during her "fall from grace". Yet those two characters become integral characters later on, Sugimoto in the second arc (and I'm sure she would have played a big role in the 6th arc), and Asano in the third. What I find funny is that many people claimed that they could not figure out Asano's purpose is in the third arc, but it's ironic in that Asano spends much of the third arc trying to figure out his purpose in this world! It actually adds another layer that is probably not present in the novel (I don't know, I can't read Japanese.. ).
And don't worry about length. I tend to write long posts myself..
I'd have to say, I'm not sure what you mean by "a bit" older. You see, I'm 26 years old, and it really feels like that I'm older than the average around here. Though if you check out the animeNFO.com forums, you'll find regulars that are in their late 30s and 40s. And where are you from that showed Twelve Kingdoms on TV subtitled?!? Obviously *not* in the U.S...
And I never watched the LOTR movies or read the novels. I probably will at some point, though.
One thing that people seem to gloss over in media today is storytelling. Storytelling in a video and audio composite is not just plot and characters. How those story and character are put on screen and through sound is important. This is what drew many people to the original Star Wars. It is probably why "Gone with the Wind" is considered a classic (I don't know, never read the book or saw the movie...). And storytelling is something that Twelve Kingdoms does really well. The only other thing I've ever seen match its level of storytelling is the Crest of the Stars anime (which I include the Banner of the Stars and Banner of the Stars II series in).
What's even more amazing about Twelve Kingdoms is that Youko still has room to grow. And there are many other interesting stories that can be told; one such story is Kouya's story after the events in Arc 4! What the hell happened to him to get to where you see him in the second arc!
And I'd have to say, Twelve Kingdoms is one of the few novel-to-TV/Movie adaptations that actually added a bit to the book: Sugimoto was only a minor character in the book, and Asano never existed at all in the novels! How those two characters are integrated so well into the story is nothing short of amazing. Why they were added to the anime makes alot of sense; the novel Youko was much more introspective and featured alot of internal dialog, something very difficult to convey on screen. So she gets "friends" that come with her that help her bounce thoughts off of during her "fall from grace". Yet those two characters become integral characters later on, Sugimoto in the second arc (and I'm sure she would have played a big role in the 6th arc), and Asano in the third. What I find funny is that many people claimed that they could not figure out Asano's purpose is in the third arc, but it's ironic in that Asano spends much of the third arc trying to figure out his purpose in this world! It actually adds another layer that is probably not present in the novel (I don't know, I can't read Japanese..
).And don't worry about length. I tend to write long posts myself..
zitch
Well, i'm still a bit older than you are. I'm 30 years old. Way above the average, isn't it?
And no, i'm not from USA. I'm from Israel but my mother tongue is Russian. Thankfully they don't spoil the films here with dubbing, except for some children's fare, considering that this sort of population still can't follow the subtitles.
(Yes, you know, i wondered about Kouya as well. How he'd become all of the sudden Lord Shinkuu? I don't know if it's in the books, but as i understand, anime doesn't answer this question.)
And you simply stole my words about the adaptation. I already read every available translation of the Ono's novels i could find in the net - unfortunately, i don't know Japanese or Chinese as well, so there's no chance in Hell i'd be able to read them some other way.
And after all the readings, i'm even more amazed on how well adapted these series are. You're absolutely right about Sugimoto and Asano - they do add a lot to what happens on screen.
But exactly!
Actually, if not for them, i think we'd loose some exceptionally sad and moving scenes. Yes, in the novel Youko is mostly alone, and it's really powerful and heartwrenching to READ how she suffers to survive, but it's UNFILMABLE! There's the power of the word that the author puts to great use and there's the power of the images. It's different and i'm glad that the producers of the anime understood this. They changed things here and there and they had to give Youko companions here and there simply to reflect the process she's into without boring viewers to death. Because showing us her endless sleepless nights spent in fighting with youmas and her starving to death over and over and over...it'd kill the dynamics of the movie on the spot. I think the whole idea of using Shusei and those theatrical masks in her monkey's conversations is nothing short of brilliant.
But that's me. I read those still unfinished translations after i saw the anime. Maybe, being the fan of the novels and, thus, building certain expectations in advance would spoil the impression from the adaptation.
Personally, i think, that the anime makers stayed very close to the books and succeded in delivering the whole essense of what happens to Youko and other characters as well. Simply put, amazingly. But again, that's just my humble opinion.
Well, i'm still a bit older than you are.
I'm 30 years old. Way above the average, isn't it? And no, i'm not from USA. I'm from Israel but my mother tongue is Russian. Thankfully they don't spoil the films here with dubbing, except for some children's fare, considering that this sort of population still can't follow the subtitles.
(Yes, you know, i wondered about Kouya as well. How he'd become all of the sudden Lord Shinkuu? I don't know if it's in the books, but as i understand, anime doesn't answer this question.)
And you simply stole my words about the adaptation. I already read every available translation of the Ono's novels i could find in the net - unfortunately, i don't know Japanese or Chinese as well, so there's no chance in Hell i'd be able to read them some other way.
And after all the readings, i'm even more amazed on how well adapted these series are. You're absolutely right about Sugimoto and Asano - they do add a lot to what happens on screen.
in the novel Youko was much more introspective and featured alot of internal dialog, something very difficult to convey on screen. So she gets "friends" that come with her that help her bounce thoughts off of during her "fall from grace". Yet those two characters become integral characters later on, Sugimoto in the second arc (and I'm sure she would have played a big role in the 6th arc), and Asano in the third.
But exactly!
Actually, if not for them, i think we'd loose some exceptionally sad and moving scenes. Yes, in the novel Youko is mostly alone, and it's really powerful and heartwrenching to READ how she suffers to survive, but it's UNFILMABLE! There's the power of the word that the author puts to great use and there's the power of the images. It's different and i'm glad that the producers of the anime understood this. They changed things here and there and they had to give Youko companions here and there simply to reflect the process she's into without boring viewers to death. Because showing us her endless sleepless nights spent in fighting with youmas and her starving to death over and over and over...it'd kill the dynamics of the movie on the spot. I think the whole idea of using Shusei and those theatrical masks in her monkey's conversations is nothing short of brilliant.
But that's me. I read those still unfinished translations after i saw the anime. Maybe, being the fan of the novels and, thus, building certain expectations in advance would spoil the impression from the adaptation.
Personally, i think, that the anime makers stayed very close to the books and succeded in delivering the whole essense of what happens to Youko and other characters as well. Simply put, amazingly. But again, that's just my humble opinion.
twelve kingdoms is really good for those who loved lord of the rings and other epic stories...it is very good.... i alwys see animation grades of twelve kingdoms and i guess all of them are not lower than 90%...higher average compared to other popular anime....kudos to ono-sensei!!!
I shall never leave your side. My eternal loyalty, I pledge unto you
same with me....i want to know keiki more...carmolita wrote:zitch-
I found one scene that was hilarious and that was the one involving rokuta and rockashune -when rokuta tells rockashun that youko is missing in the cafe and rockashune freaks out and rokuta grabs his wiskers and tells him to keep it down--i thought that was very funny and so did my daughter whose was only 5....I love watching those two together ..
however I was hooked on this series from the first episode-mainley because I wanted to know more, about keiki...
i don't understand why he literally doesn't got any emotions...that's very weird....some characters might be unemotonal outside, but they hide sumthin inside....i don't think keiki hides anything...really weird.... I shall never leave your side. My eternal loyalty, I pledge unto you