the fate of Gyousou [spoiler]

Post by **zitch** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:26 pm

Hmm... I'll have to get down to reading the last book, but my understanding was Gyousou was thought to have gone into hiding. But I would think it very strange that Taiki didn't develop shitsudo during some of the years (Unless his horn getting cut off affects that too) if that's the case.

It could have been a case of a violently bad rebellion that Gyousou could do nothing about, so having Taiki develop shitsudo wasn't going to happen because Gyousou hasn't actually lost his way yet.

Interesting question.

nightchaser · Post by **nightchaser** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:55 pm

The book detailing the fate of Gyousou hasn't been written yet. So no one knows what has happened to him. Could have been imprisoned or in hiding. We know he is not dead because Taiki would have known he was dead. At the end of the last book Taiki is returned to the kingdoms and he and Risai ride off into the sunset to look for him. Taiki should be able to use his kirin senses to locate him (although I image it will still take a while). Hopefully the author will write that book someday and we will all know what happens next, but considering that the last book was written 5 years ago I guess it isn't looking too good.

nightchaser · Post by **nightchaser** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:20 am

No, he didn't die

Read it again. It just says he disappeared and no one has seen him for several years. He was tricked into going off to another province to suppress a rebellion and then attacked. Gyousou and a couple of his generals disappeared. The whole plot is very intricate and makes a really good story.

Elysium · Post by **Elysium** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:46 pm

It was very unclear what happened, but it was indicated at several places that he probably was not dead (the main reason is because the white bird had not made the second sound).

mindstalk · Post by **mindstalk** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:12 pm

Elysium wrote:It was very unclear what happened, but it was indicated at several places that he probably was not dead (the main reason is because the white bird had not made the second sound).

Which Asen should know too, so I wonder what he's thinking and doing. It's even possible he has Tai-ou imprisoned; in that case, he'd know Taiki had survived Asen's attack, else Tai-ou would have died. Keeping the old king imprisoned to torture him and the land of Tai, or to keep a new king from being chosen...

Elysium · Post by **Elysium** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:20 pm

The person Asen is a mystery, as was said in the book he did not (as one would have guessed) want to rule the country. So the question is why he did what he did?
There was also a loose clue from the king of Han, who found a piece of a belt belonged to Tai-ou.

mindstalk · Post by **mindstalk** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:59 pm

Elysium wrote:The person Asen is a mystery, as was said in the book he did not (as one would have guessed) want to rule the country. So the question is why he did what he did?
There was also a loose clue from the king of Han, who found a piece of a belt belonged to Tai-ou.

*glyph of great surprise*

Han-ou found it? Where, in Japan? That's weird. Not that finding it in Han would be much better.

Demon Child seemed to be implying that Taiki's teacher had something weird about him as well, I don't know if that ever got resolved.

Elysium · Post by **Elysium** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:11 am

mindstalk wrote: *glyph of great surprise*

Han-ou found it? Where, in Japan? That's weird. Not that finding it in Han would be much better.

Demon Child seemed to be implying that Taiki's teacher had something weird about him as well, I don't know if that ever got resolved.

This episode was mentioned in "The Shore at Twilight, The Sky at Daybreak". Before they started the searching for Taiki, the king and the kirin of Han paid a visit to Gyoten. The king told Risai that he a couple of years ago had found a piece torn from the present he gave Gyousou when Gyousou became the king of Tai. (They found the thing among the jade stones that was imported from Tai.) I assume that the first plan for Taiki and Risai, when they go back to Tai, is to search the area where those jade stones were sent from.

I had the impression that the teacher was just someone ordinary who dreamed a little too much, that older teacher was always pointing out that there were differences between him and Kouri.

bernhardt · Post by **bernhardt** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:13 am

I thought he did not die because Taiki was still alive back in Japan. The search for him only began when Taiki return to the 12 Kingdom.

endah · Post by **endah** » Tue May 15, 2007 1:25 am

Reviving a thread in coma....

Yes that's the biggest mystery! What happened to Gyousou?! He surely didnt die, and no released novel gave any enough light to let us know what happened to gyousou during and after his 'trip' to Bun province.

Just like Youko's offiicials predicted, I'm sure Gyousou's being captured by Asen. He's confined and probably tortured. Or probably since it seems like Asen was not simply against Gyousou but more against Tentei&co (shouko in anime's kaze no banri took Asen's trait, coz in the novel shouko was nothing but a greedy official), he just made Gyousou sleep for years. Or he cut Gyousou's arms and legs just for fun.

Whatever happened, when Taiki finally find him, Gyousou wouldnt be the same man. It would destroy him to be so hopeless&useless while his kingdom and people shattered to pieces.

According to Tasogare no Kishi (Risai), Gyousou was supposed to be the ultimate king of Tai, he was the extreme positive, the extreme light. And nature couldnt let something so perfect alone. Asen's prooving that Tentei cannot directly touch people other than the Ou and the Kirin. He had created a situation where he could give tentei his middle finger and there's nothing tentei nor anybody in Tai can do about it.

Ono... ono... Fuyumi... Write... kake!!

Masha · Post by **Masha** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:24 pm

endah wrote:Reviving a thread in coma....

According to Tasogare no Kishi (Risai), Gyousou was supposed to be the ultimate king of Tai, he was the extreme positive, the extreme light. And nature couldnt let something so perfect alone. Asen's prooving that Tentei cannot directly touch people other than the Ou and the Kirin. He had created a situation where he could give tentei his middle finger and there's nothing tentei nor anybody in Tai can do about it.

Ono... ono... Fuyumi... Write... kake!!

Actually, according to Risai thinking about it, Gyousou wasn't the ideal king. She just has this huge crash on him and all, but when she is lying in bed (Tasagore no Kishi) she remembers that when Taiki went to visit Ren, Gyousou ordered her never to reveal whats going to happen next in Tai. He just went and cought all ministers who weren't agreeing with him, not only corrupt and greedy ones, but anyone who wasn't with him. And then he executed them without trial or anything. Kaei, friend of Risai and higher official was in despair because so many people were murdered. And frankly speaking, Risai is not exactly objective witness, she is totally taken with Gyousou and idolizes him, even when he does somthing wrong she justifies it in her mind. I have a suspicion that Taiki would have gotten shitsudo very soon. Gyousou was a good and strong general, but he was too full of himself, unfallible, and couldn't admit mistake. I doubt he would have lasted more than 50 years. If Taiki and Risai would find him, I really hope that this horrible experience changed him for the better by teaching him despair and humility. And I also don't think that Aspen was messing with Tentei, it was because he thought that Taiki made a mistake in choosing Gyousou and not him. If he had succeeded in killing Taiki, Gyousou would've died within a month, but since Taiki escaped he didn't killed Gyousou because he probably hoped that living emperor alive would eliviate Tei's rapid descend into chaos, but it didn't work. He wanted to rule Tei, but the wrecks of it. I think in his mind, this Taiki didn't choose him and probably never will, so the next Taiki would.

mindstalk · Post by **mindstalk** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:43 pm

thesmokingman wrote:The question I have is why didn't Taiki begin to suffer shitsudou when Gyousou disappeared and the kingdom went into ruins?

Why should Taiki suffer shitsudou? Gyousou didn't step down or abandon his duties, he's been imprisoned or chased into hiding. The king has not lost his way. The king has lost his frigging army, but not his way...

Masha · Post by **Masha** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:07 pm

I am sure that Shitsudou is tied to king alone not relevant to the country. However, what I am not sure if a king does nothing good or bad and just allows his ministers, generals and provincial lords do as they will - essentially run wild even if they corrupt, it might incur Shitsudou. Since Gyousou was captured by Aspen and was forced to stay wherever Aspen hidden him as his prisoner, while Aspen assumed the throne and ruined the country, it might have could Shitsudou too which could be corrected almost immediately by freeing Gyousou and having him assume control again. Obviously, Taiki wasn't hit by Shitsudou in real world and by what I heard from end of last book nor in Juuni Kokki world when he returned, so obviously there is no Shitsudou.
However, it is a different matter entirely if Aspen didn't happen and Gyousou continued to rule, Taiki might have suffered Shitsudou anyway because Gyousou might have been too ruthless.
I suspect if there will ever be another book in Juuni Kokki it will address Taiki's return to Tai and rescue (or replacement) of Gyousou and then it might become more clear what kind of ruler was Gyousou and how much his imprisonment changed him (for better or worse) and how much Taiki had changed thru last 6-7 years and how their relationship had changed. I daresay that now, Taiki will be more like Youko - more decisive if thru nothing else but their uncanny simularity in upbringing in Japan

endah · Post by **endah** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:02 am

Masha wrote: Actually, according to Risai thinking about it, Gyousou wasn't the ideal king. She just has this huge crash on him and all, but when she is lying in bed (Tasagore no Kishi) she remembers that when Taiki went to visit Ren, Gyousou ordered her never to reveal whats going to happen next in Tai. He just went and cought all ministers who weren't agreeing with him, not only corrupt and greedy ones, but anyone who wasn't with him. And then he executed them without trial or anything. Kaei, friend of Risai and higher official was in despair because so many people were murdered. And frankly speaking, Risai is not exactly objective witness, she is totally taken with Gyousou and idolizes him, even when he does somthing wrong she justifies it in her mind. I have a suspicion that Taiki would have gotten shitsudo very soon. Gyousou was a good and strong general, but he was too full of himself, unfallible, and couldn't admit mistake. I doubt he would have lasted more than 50 years. If Taiki and Risai would find him, I really hope that this horrible experience changed him for the better by teaching him despair and humility. And I also don't think that Aspen was messing with Tentei, it was because he thought that Taiki made a mistake in choosing Gyousou and not him. If he had succeeded in killing Taiki, Gyousou would've died within a month, but since Taiki escaped he didn't killed Gyousou because he probably hoped that living emperor alive would eliviate Tei's rapid descend into chaos, but it didn't work. He wanted to rule Tei, but the wrecks of it. I think in his mind, this Taiki didn't choose him and probably never will, so the next Taiki would.

Oh I didn't think anyone would actually respond:D

Well interesting view. However what I said was based on the books and on Risai's thoughts. I just think Ono never meant to say that emperors have to be kind in order to rule their countries. Risai and Kaei had their doubts, even very strong ones about Gyousou's actions. But they concluded their fears of his high-handed policies by realizing that he's actually right. He's too fast for them, but they realized at the end that what they feared was the rapid change itself. Risai also realized that Gyousou knew better than her about Taiki as a Kirin. (Btw the books never suggest that Risai had a crush for Gyousou! She probably had the most objective POV because she's not his former subordinate.)

And you're wrong to say that he caught and executed those who are not with him, even worse without a trial. He wanted to catch those who were corrupted (nothing was ever said about catching those who were true to the way but didn't agree with him. If that's the case, Kaei and some other officials, whose voices were heard by Risai would have been captured as well. Where did you get that idea?). Everything were done in the right way, and there were proper trials! (otherwise Kaei wouldn't have been so distressed, since she's in charge of these trials), Gyousou ordered this clearly. He just wanted the news of this 'cleaning' to be toned down and kept a secret especially from the Taiki and the general people (who lived down there, far far away in the first place).

I consider Risai's thoughts as Ono's view of Gyousou's rule. It was stated several times that Taiki was there to smooth Gyousou a bit, even Gyousou himself said so. So he was a bit ruthless, but in a way that was still acceptable as an emperor, and of course acceptable by the Heaven. Kantai of Kei said that the destruction of Tai doesn't mean Gyousou is not a genius., and I also consider this as Ono's way to defend Gyousou's chara, that he was not the cause of Tai's destruction.

As for Asen, saying that "It was your mistake for choosing Gyousou!" doesn't necessarily mean that he wanted the throne. He could simply be hating Tai and Tentei, and hated Gyousou because he's bringing Tai back to life so fast. as Risai said, Gyousou was bringing Tai back together in a rapid movements, and that she and others who were doubting Gyousou's rather ruthless actions were finally seeing the light and would expect Tai to flourish in no time, and they all could finally work together in harmony. Wouldn't Asen hate it, if he hated Tai and Tentei? Plus he's destroying Tai and its land and its people, and he didn't give a damn about rituals for the heavens. According to Risai and Kei's official, someone who thought he would be a better emperor would not do it.

So basically these are not my own opinion... I simply read them in the books. Ono could change/ contradict it anytime she feels like to, in her next books.

I like your idea that Gyousou would learn humility and despair and then be a better emperor. That would be great, if he could be better.

But again, all my talk about Gyousou's rule being the ultimate good and how nature can't leave extreme good and extreme bad alone, this is all just a quote of what Risai thought AFTER she overcame her fears. And if you choose to consider Risai's opinion as something non objective because she's idolizing Gyousou, then there's no further discussion:D

mindstalk wrote:Why should Taiki suffer shitsudou? Gyousou didn't step down or abandon his duties, he's been imprisoned or chased into hiding. The king has not lost his way. The king has lost his frigging army, but not his way...

ATA