Let's make this place live!

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:53 pm

Come on, Juuni Kokki deserves more discussion!

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:36 pm

You know, when I saw the anime, I thought it was based on a manga, not a novel. >_>

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:48 am

Indeed. But wouldn't it be nice if there was a manga? Then we'd get more nice art.

Post by **zitch** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:23 am

I have the second volume. Except my girlfriend started reading it before me... so I have to wait until she's done...

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:28 pm

Is it just me, or women like Juuni Kokki? =P

Chiwara · Post by **Chiwara** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:59 pm

Some series go from novel, anime, to manga. All JK needs is that one last step...

Jinx999 · Post by **Jinx999** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:24 am

They changed his personality when they adapted the book. In my opinion, it was an improvement. The "fat, corrupt and petty" official is too much of a cliche.

It was also a way of externalising the whole "will of the heavens" dilemma of Youko's. How does she justify her reign?

So, what you you thing of Eugene's latest chapter? I kind of understand Youko's refusal to take being threatened seriously and her maintaining her dignity, buy why wasn't she planning and trying to fight back? The plotters' xenophobia and the importantce they put on their privilige puts them fairly clearly into the "badguy" camp and it was her responsibility of ruler not to let such people have their way.

Jinx999 · Post by **Jinx999** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:20 am

Agreed. It would have been better if it had been properly foreshadowed beforehand. However, except the tit in charge of the Forbidden Gate who wanted Risai killed at the start of the book and one conversation later, there is no foreshadowing.

I wouldn't say that their reasons were "stupid" exactly, so much as completely alien to a modern way of thinking. Until VERY recently, the priviliged classes have always been afraid of being supplanted and convinced that any loss of their preminence would bring disaster and China had a particularily bad case of this.

What I find personally very annoying about these people is that they had failed in their duty as officials. They had concerns about their superiors policies and failed to bring these concerns to her attention. Armed rebellion is not the ideal way to send a message.

mindstalk · Post by **mindstalk** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:30 pm

DimensionW wrote:I'm more or less led to believe that it was just a way to add a little action to the book that until that scene really hadn't had any. To say the least, it was kind of random and their reasons for getting all fussy were pretty stupid... not to mention something you would think to have been resolved long between this book and the last major Yoko story (Thousand Leagues/Ri of Wind).

What bugs me more than Yoko's unwillingness to defend herself is her unwillingness to explain her actions to them... granted, at least on the aspect of class it is obvious they wouldn't really give a damn, she could have made at least some effort to explain her plans in the foreign arena. Who knows, it might have even gotten them off her back.

But since they were the random bigots (who for some reason hadn't already been disposed of 0-o), I guess they had to die.

Further chapters address the "disposed of" bit.

mindstalk · Post by **mindstalk** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:31 pm

Shokou wrote:Come on, Juuni Kokki deserves more discussion!

The forum might draw more people if they didn't have to register just to be able to *read* the discussions.

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:38 am

I'm back, folks. Let's straighten this place up again!

*reads Dimension W's post* Hmmm...is this traslation reliable? If that's the case, Shokou was made like Gahou. A fat, corrupt official, typical of bad people who make the country suffer.

It would seem that as Jinx stated, they improved Shokou in the anime, and that's the version of Shokou I fell in love with, so to speak. And that's another reason to why I want the anime continued...the adaptation is great. Shokou's character was made complex: He has a motive for his actions. If those heavens are so powerful, why is he able to commit all of those crimes? He could only confirm it by confronting the gods themselves, their chosen queen. Shokou's ideals are captivating to me.

mindstalk · Post by **mindstalk** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:59 am

Eugene's translations are probably better than the Tokyopop ones, frankly.

Continuing the anime won't help, because they mostly keep to the books. They change some things: externalizing Youko's doubts in Sugimoto, changing Shoukou's motivations (but not his actions and significance, and his doubts reflect what Risai and Youko will say and think in the third Youko book), Youko's career with the travelling performers, turning Youko into a narrative frame for stories that have nothing to do with her. But it stays within Ono's framework and Shouko's never been mentioned since.

I suppose he could be worked into the Youko/Taiki novel, especially given Risai's doubts, but he could just as easily be executed off screen or languish unmentioned in prison. At heart he's a selfish mass murderer who killed and tormented lots of people to gratify his curiosity; not really attractive "ideals" to ask the audience to sympathize with.

They'd have their work cut out adapting the Youko/Taiki novel, given that the climax problem of "how do we get him back home in his state?" seems a lot less urgent given Sugimoto and Asano's travels; anime kind of sabotaged itself. And it's such a talky novel, with the kirins doing all the heavy lifting.

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:24 am

I say continue the anime using the anime Shokou anyway...they could show us more of his thoughts before he is either executed or thrown in prison.

I should read the translation of the last two novels. << I want Kyo-Ou.

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:55 pm

Ugh...someone deal with this bot? Juuni Kokki doesn't deserve this ruin.

Yume Li · Post by **Yume Li** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:29 am

I agreed.

This is a place to discuss Juuni Kokki. Not promote junk or garbage.

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:56 am

Where are the mods? (-_-);

Post by **zitch** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:21 pm

Sorry about that. That one caught me when I got really bogged down at work again.

All the spam I can find should be gone now.

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:07 pm

By the way, I've been daily watching and rewatching this for the whole year. O_O

carlanox · Post by **carlanox** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:08 am

Shokou wrote:Come on, Juuni Kokki deserves more discussion!

Guys I am back into the forum

Long live Juuni Kokki!!!

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:15 pm

I just can't stop rewatching the series in an endless cycle. I'm just skipping the episodes from the first novel, they were the least interesting to me. <_<

Nooly · Post by **Nooly** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:40 am

Haha! Exactly! Spring time means to me - time to rewatch The Twelve Kingdoms XD. And with every episode i'm even more convinced it's the greatest anime ever.

In my case, Taiki's story is the most fascinating part. I'm currently reading 'Demon Clild' as well... So sad...and...beautiful!!!

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:09 pm

My favorite arc is Kaze no Banri, Reimei no Sora, the third and longest arc. So man touching stories...Suzu, Shokei, Asano, Koshu, Shokou...and a great ending to it, including Episode 40, which complements it nicely, and sets things up for Shoryu's story. Fantastic, no matter how many times I watch it.

Shokou · Post by **Shokou** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:49 pm

I dunno what to say about the first novel...it's so...boring compared to the rest of the series(except for the one episode with Shoryu's past, which was when I actually started paying attention to the anime). The whole Kingdom of Kou just seems so...bland...and Sugimoto is a bad character. And it takes a bit for Shoryu's actual performance. v_v

I have to say my second favorite was Higashi no Wadatsumi, Nishi no Soukai, the Shoryu story. I felt it was done very well in the animation. Shoryu's conflicts seemed so real: and I felt it was a good ending to the series, Shoryu and Enki looking at the Kingdom of En, and Youko returning to Kei to finish her job...I appreciated it.

Juuni · Post by **Juuni** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:22 am

I always find easier to re (-re-re)watch the last part of the anime, Sea God in the East, Vast Sea in the West. Mainly because it involves Shouryuu and Kouya, but not only that, it seems to me that those 5 episodes are the most light hearted and warm of all the series. Perhaps it's because the story takes place in the past, we know that "now" everything is alright with the main characters and we can relax and enjoy.

I find most dificult to rewatch the first part of the series, Shadow of the Moon, Sea of Shadow, especially until Shouryuu appears, because of the lack of main characters and the overall tension, stress and struggle of Youko.

Other than that, any episode with Keiki has been rewatched more than it's sane to do so.

Jinx999 · Post by **Jinx999** » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:40 am

I liked the first arc, because of its character development. However that does mean that you have to set through four episodes of Youko being whiney and two episodes of her being psychotic before she becomes the character we like.

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