I don’t know if this has been discussed, but this is my first post and I’m not going to go digging into all previous topics to do laziness. As is, I was just re-reading the books and a few questions popped into my mind. First is, do any of you know of the Imperial Regalia of the other Kingdoms? The ones I know of are these:
Kei has the Suiguu-tou, the Water Monkey Sword, which was forged from water and the most magical of youma.
Sai has the Kasho Kada, a bejeweled peach tree branch that would reveal in dreams a vision of Paradise.
Ren has the Gogoukanda, the serpent-like bracelet that creates a wormhole to the other side without triggering a shoku.
And Han has the Kouyoukyou, which dematerializes the person whose image it reflects and was used to replicate the shirei and youma searching for Taiki, (I never really understood how the heck that worked).
That’s four kingdoms, but what of the other eight? Surely they should have some magical regalia of their own, right? If nothing else has been mentioned in the books, what would you all think they could be?
Second is, it’s very obvious that JK is a very magical world, but the magic used by human hasn’t been expanded upon. There are rumors that the usurper of Tai uses ‘Black Magic’ or something of the sort. There’s the fact that Keiki’s horn and powers was sealed somehow. There’s the enchanted stairs in the Palaces. Along with this, there are mentions of wizards everywhere, but most are just a translation or form of referring to the immortals, the Sennin, who haven’t shown any noteworthy, independent magical power.
In fact, with what has been shown about magic in the series, how the hell was the Royal Kei of the time able to subdue those powerful magical youma and forge them into a sword? What other feats of magic have been shown in the books? And could any of the Sennin learn to perform them? Or would these abilities be restricted to a few?
. . . And I’m asking this because besides being curious, I’m also planning out a fan fiction story with JK as the main setting of a crossover. So any insight would be appreciated.
Imperial Regalia
Moderator: zitch
Sounds like you have researched it fairly throughly. You claims of laziness do not hold water. 
I believe Kourin's bracelet was an imperial treasure, but I'm not sure and it may be an anime only item.
One magical ability I've noticed, although it hasn't been shown directly, is the ability to forge Touki, magical weapons. Another was the magical bead used to seal Rakushun's horn when he was a prisoner.
It looks like magic in the twelve kingdoms is always enchanted objects. We've never seen humans casting spells. The only time we've seen a spell cast was Kourin sealing Keiki. Which was a) a binding, not a flashy high energy spell, b) used a magical item in the anime, was not seen in the book and c) was done by a kirin.
When Suzu was looking for a magical healer, she went straight to looking for Kei-ou, which STRONGLY indicates that there aren't any normal magical healers. Very different from the situation with touki, which are common enough that there are shops selling them and not very proserous rebel groups, like Koshou's, can get hold of them.
What are you planning to crossover, if I may ask?
I believe Kourin's bracelet was an imperial treasure, but I'm not sure and it may be an anime only item.
One magical ability I've noticed, although it hasn't been shown directly, is the ability to forge Touki, magical weapons. Another was the magical bead used to seal Rakushun's horn when he was a prisoner.
It looks like magic in the twelve kingdoms is always enchanted objects. We've never seen humans casting spells. The only time we've seen a spell cast was Kourin sealing Keiki. Which was a) a binding, not a flashy high energy spell, b) used a magical item in the anime, was not seen in the book and c) was done by a kirin.
When Suzu was looking for a magical healer, she went straight to looking for Kei-ou, which STRONGLY indicates that there aren't any normal magical healers. Very different from the situation with touki, which are common enough that there are shops selling them and not very proserous rebel groups, like Koshou's, can get hold of them.
What are you planning to crossover, if I may ask?
Ah, I didn’t say that I didn’t research a bit (Okay, more than a bit), just that I was too lazy to look through the forums themselves properly. =P
Anyways, I always thought that Kourin’s bracelet could be one, but like you said, it only shows up in the anime. I think it makes that impression because it’s the only thing left after she dies. Besides, what would such a bracelet do? From what I remember of Keiki being sealed, it was because there were characters carved into his horn with blood in them; a Kirin’s aversion to blood is legendary.
In any case (and I’m paraphrasing here), En-ou told Youko that while the Kirin’s have their shirei, the Emperors have the powers of the magical regalia to help them rule; in fact, it makes me wonder why we haven’t seen En’s regalia, or why Youko doesn’t use hers more often; it a bloody useful trinket, isn’t it?
I see what you mean as well. It seems that everything they do is through objects. According to wiki, the jewels which heal and erase hunger from Kei are not alone in the world; there seems to be other ‘jewels’ with different abilities imbued in them, though none others have been mentioned that I know of.
Still, the Minister in charge of the treasury is also in charge of the touki weapons, right? And the imperial jewels as well . . . I think the Royal Han mentioned that the artisans of his own court belonged to that Ministry and were the best in the world; now that I think about it, such makes them the one responsible of magical items, doesn’t it?
And if magical items are all the overt magic a human in the kingdoms can perform, maybe, like everything within that world, magic, or the actual forging of these items is a ceremonial affair; Ceremonies that follow specific rules, procedures and such?
Apart from the Kirin itself, youma are the most magical beings in JK, aren’t they? Wouldn’t then these magical ‘items’ be forged from youma like Kei’s Water Monkey Sword? Youma are, after all, ‘spirits’ in a way.
. . . And I’m babbling because I just realized all this. Hmph. I’ll need to think a bit more about it. But it’s a promising idea; going youma hunting to make magical items should be a fun venture, don’t you think?
As for the story I’m thinking up, well, I’m a pretty big fan of Harry Potter, despise the way it ended, so I’m just thinking of plucking Harry and placing him in the Twelve Kingdoms. His character is only half-defined by the end of the series, and, well, I’m thinking of a whole bunch of situations that I can use to help flesh him out.
Not to mention that having someone with ‘active’ magic being the king of the most prejudiced kingdom in the realm, especially with how open minded Harry usually is, well, what can I say? I’ll have lots of fun with it at least! My hands are itching to write some Imperial Court violence where half of them end up stunned or petrified, lol.
If yall have any ideas I could use, I would be grateful for them, of course. For the moment, do you think a cross like this could actually work?
P.S. Wasn’t Koshou able to get a hold of them because the Minister was selling the touki weapons, probably to the bad guys?
Anyways, I always thought that Kourin’s bracelet could be one, but like you said, it only shows up in the anime. I think it makes that impression because it’s the only thing left after she dies. Besides, what would such a bracelet do? From what I remember of Keiki being sealed, it was because there were characters carved into his horn with blood in them; a Kirin’s aversion to blood is legendary.
In any case (and I’m paraphrasing here), En-ou told Youko that while the Kirin’s have their shirei, the Emperors have the powers of the magical regalia to help them rule; in fact, it makes me wonder why we haven’t seen En’s regalia, or why Youko doesn’t use hers more often; it a bloody useful trinket, isn’t it?
I see what you mean as well. It seems that everything they do is through objects. According to wiki, the jewels which heal and erase hunger from Kei are not alone in the world; there seems to be other ‘jewels’ with different abilities imbued in them, though none others have been mentioned that I know of.
Still, the Minister in charge of the treasury is also in charge of the touki weapons, right? And the imperial jewels as well . . . I think the Royal Han mentioned that the artisans of his own court belonged to that Ministry and were the best in the world; now that I think about it, such makes them the one responsible of magical items, doesn’t it?
And if magical items are all the overt magic a human in the kingdoms can perform, maybe, like everything within that world, magic, or the actual forging of these items is a ceremonial affair; Ceremonies that follow specific rules, procedures and such?
Apart from the Kirin itself, youma are the most magical beings in JK, aren’t they? Wouldn’t then these magical ‘items’ be forged from youma like Kei’s Water Monkey Sword? Youma are, after all, ‘spirits’ in a way.
. . . And I’m babbling because I just realized all this. Hmph. I’ll need to think a bit more about it. But it’s a promising idea; going youma hunting to make magical items should be a fun venture, don’t you think?
As for the story I’m thinking up, well, I’m a pretty big fan of Harry Potter, despise the way it ended, so I’m just thinking of plucking Harry and placing him in the Twelve Kingdoms. His character is only half-defined by the end of the series, and, well, I’m thinking of a whole bunch of situations that I can use to help flesh him out.
Not to mention that having someone with ‘active’ magic being the king of the most prejudiced kingdom in the realm, especially with how open minded Harry usually is, well, what can I say? I’ll have lots of fun with it at least! My hands are itching to write some Imperial Court violence where half of them end up stunned or petrified, lol.
If yall have any ideas I could use, I would be grateful for them, of course. For the moment, do you think a cross like this could actually work?
P.S. Wasn’t Koshou able to get a hold of them because the Minister was selling the touki weapons, probably to the bad guys?
Crossing with Harry Potter would be difficult, IMHO. It'd be hard to get the atmosphere work and you'd have to think hard about the consequences. If you don't mind me "being helpful":
1) Harry is described as looking very like his parents. Taika seem to generally not look like them.
2) If Harry disappears mysteriously, you'd get a lot of people with interesting resources looking for him.
3) The Twelve Kingdoms is a strange world operating on magical principles, but magic itself in the setting is rare and mysterious. HP is set in the "real world", but magic is what they use to do the dishes.
4) Harry would be pretty miserable if dragged away from his home in the magical world and friends. If done pre defeat of V, his friends are f***ed.
5) Both Harry Potter and the Twelve Kingdoms are "changeling fantasies", where someone with a seemingly ordinary, if miserable, life discovers they are not ordinary people at all. That doesn't work if their previous life is happy and they are special there.
I'd be tempted to make someone else, such as Luna, the Taika, and Harry along for the ride, simply because it'd be interesting to see a case where Harry is the side character in someone else's story.
Crossovers between contrasting worlds can be difficult to do well, especially if you're not careful about working the contast into the story. If you've seen "Full Metal Panic", well over half the humor comes from the contrast between the world of high-tech military counter-terrorism and the world of high school romance.
1) Harry is described as looking very like his parents. Taika seem to generally not look like them.
2) If Harry disappears mysteriously, you'd get a lot of people with interesting resources looking for him.
3) The Twelve Kingdoms is a strange world operating on magical principles, but magic itself in the setting is rare and mysterious. HP is set in the "real world", but magic is what they use to do the dishes.
4) Harry would be pretty miserable if dragged away from his home in the magical world and friends. If done pre defeat of V, his friends are f***ed.
5) Both Harry Potter and the Twelve Kingdoms are "changeling fantasies", where someone with a seemingly ordinary, if miserable, life discovers they are not ordinary people at all. That doesn't work if their previous life is happy and they are special there.
I'd be tempted to make someone else, such as Luna, the Taika, and Harry along for the ride, simply because it'd be interesting to see a case where Harry is the side character in someone else's story.
Crossovers between contrasting worlds can be difficult to do well, especially if you're not careful about working the contast into the story. If you've seen "Full Metal Panic", well over half the humor comes from the contrast between the world of high-tech military counter-terrorism and the world of high school romance.
I agree with you completely. In fact, crossovers in general are usually a huge failure. But what can I say? At the moment I find crosses rather fascinating. Mostly because they’re so difficult to pull off successfully that when you actually find a good one, it’s like finding a diamond in the sand.
Too, the challenge it presents is good for my imagination, and that’s a good thing in my line of work.
Still, I thank you for what you’ve pointed out in your post, it made me think on some things that I hadn’t considered before, and helped me expand on exciting ideas as well.
I already had an angle for Harry’s change of appearance, in fact. At the moment the working title of the story is ‘The Reluctant King’ so I can continue that whole theme of Harry doing mostly ‘what is right, not what is easy.’
He’ll angst about the changes, whine about the expectation, chafe at the responsibilities and constraint (and ceremony), and ultimately drag his feet for quite some time, but he’ll still do the right thing. Probably messing things up along the way, pissing off the wrong people and getting lucky while surviving assassination plots.
Heh. I don’t plan to make it easy to him of course, but then, Harry doesn’t usually let things get him down, so I’m counting on that little quirk in his personality to come shining through . . . at some point or another.
As for disappearing, I’ve already written the scene where Kouki shows up and drops the bomb on him, and instead of directly dumping the ‘Mandate of Heaven’ on his shoulders, gives the choice to Harry. No one will go after him; though the goodbyes weren’t at all easy on either he or his friends (or me, for that matter; writing it was a pain).
I think I understand where you’re coming from in your third point; question is what would be more interesting? Harry retaining his “active” magic or losing it upon crossing over? Both are pretty possible, and both would influence the story in interesting ways.
I also liked your parallel on both stories being ‘changeling fantasies.’ I hadn’t considered it in that way either. Still, it gives me a new angle to exploit. Harry actually found some semblance of happiness at the end of the books (though I’m skipping the damn Epilogue), but I always thought that he wasted his potential completely. True, by the end of the series you could say that Harry ‘mastered; death, but I don’t think he ever managed to ‘master himself,’ which is one of the major themes of the JK world.
Harry as a character is rather flexible. Still, I chose him for this cross mainly for one reason, and that was something that Dumbledore told him:
“There are those who are made to lead, my boy. Those who, like you, have leadership thrust upon them, and take up the mantle because they must, and find to their own surprise that they wear it rather well.”
He might avoid it at first. Look for ways to make it easy. Focus too much in the trees that he’ll forget the forest. But at the end, he’s the kind of character that’ll let me explore a certain number of things that weren’t really addressed in the JK series, and who still has enough space to grow and change as to make a story interesting.
As for him missing his friends . . . well, I had this idea of somehow establishing a form of communication between them. With all the magic available to the Wizarding World, I’m sure I can make up a method for it (Something ‘Unspeakable’ perhaps?) In fact, since shoku in general are magical storms, I can’t see wizards not being aware of them. They might have tried to send people through one as well . . . to see what was on the other side.
I have several plots that could work if that idea pans out. Including touching up on the situation with Tai (after all, what’s a severed horn when you have skele-grow?)
. . . And hello? Luna? That’d be an awesome comedy, certainly! I can only imagine the kind of craziness that’d happen should someone like her become a Queen. Heh. . . Still, I think Luna is one of the most difficult characters to pin down, and I, for one, don’t think am up to that challenge.
And yes, I usually write this much.
It’s a gift, what can I say?
You should feel lucky that I didn’t go on tangents of political intrigue, however. I think I’ll write a JK fic without a cross somewhere along the line as well. So I’ll probably save any ideas for when I do so.
Too, the challenge it presents is good for my imagination, and that’s a good thing in my line of work.
Still, I thank you for what you’ve pointed out in your post, it made me think on some things that I hadn’t considered before, and helped me expand on exciting ideas as well.
I already had an angle for Harry’s change of appearance, in fact. At the moment the working title of the story is ‘The Reluctant King’ so I can continue that whole theme of Harry doing mostly ‘what is right, not what is easy.’
He’ll angst about the changes, whine about the expectation, chafe at the responsibilities and constraint (and ceremony), and ultimately drag his feet for quite some time, but he’ll still do the right thing. Probably messing things up along the way, pissing off the wrong people and getting lucky while surviving assassination plots.
Heh. I don’t plan to make it easy to him of course, but then, Harry doesn’t usually let things get him down, so I’m counting on that little quirk in his personality to come shining through . . . at some point or another.
As for disappearing, I’ve already written the scene where Kouki shows up and drops the bomb on him, and instead of directly dumping the ‘Mandate of Heaven’ on his shoulders, gives the choice to Harry. No one will go after him; though the goodbyes weren’t at all easy on either he or his friends (or me, for that matter; writing it was a pain).
I think I understand where you’re coming from in your third point; question is what would be more interesting? Harry retaining his “active” magic or losing it upon crossing over? Both are pretty possible, and both would influence the story in interesting ways.
I also liked your parallel on both stories being ‘changeling fantasies.’ I hadn’t considered it in that way either. Still, it gives me a new angle to exploit. Harry actually found some semblance of happiness at the end of the books (though I’m skipping the damn Epilogue), but I always thought that he wasted his potential completely. True, by the end of the series you could say that Harry ‘mastered; death, but I don’t think he ever managed to ‘master himself,’ which is one of the major themes of the JK world.
Harry as a character is rather flexible. Still, I chose him for this cross mainly for one reason, and that was something that Dumbledore told him:
“There are those who are made to lead, my boy. Those who, like you, have leadership thrust upon them, and take up the mantle because they must, and find to their own surprise that they wear it rather well.”
He might avoid it at first. Look for ways to make it easy. Focus too much in the trees that he’ll forget the forest. But at the end, he’s the kind of character that’ll let me explore a certain number of things that weren’t really addressed in the JK series, and who still has enough space to grow and change as to make a story interesting.
As for him missing his friends . . . well, I had this idea of somehow establishing a form of communication between them. With all the magic available to the Wizarding World, I’m sure I can make up a method for it (Something ‘Unspeakable’ perhaps?) In fact, since shoku in general are magical storms, I can’t see wizards not being aware of them. They might have tried to send people through one as well . . . to see what was on the other side.
I have several plots that could work if that idea pans out. Including touching up on the situation with Tai (after all, what’s a severed horn when you have skele-grow?)
. . . And hello? Luna? That’d be an awesome comedy, certainly! I can only imagine the kind of craziness that’d happen should someone like her become a Queen. Heh. . . Still, I think Luna is one of the most difficult characters to pin down, and I, for one, don’t think am up to that challenge.
And yes, I usually write this much.
It’s a gift, what can I say?
You should feel lucky that I didn’t go on tangents of political intrigue, however. I think I’ll write a JK fic without a cross somewhere along the line as well. So I’ll probably save any ideas for when I do so.
I think Kei's regalia are the water-demon sword, monkey-demon scabbard, and the healing jewel. Of course, the scabbard's main role was controlling the sword, and is dead since Youko killed the monkey in her epiphany. (I'm eternally disappointed that she never reflects on that. Scabbard dead, yes, BECAUSE YOU KILLED IT. Understandable, but geez! Acknowledge!)
Youko uses the sword all the time. :p The clairvoyance power not so much, but then she can't control it without the scabbard. It'd have made the Taiki-search a lot easier. (And if it can really see the future.... um.)
Magic... yeah, low-key, but something's out there. In the novels, or at least Eugene's version, there's wizards of the air and of the earth. One set are the bureaucratic sennin, entered into the rolls of Heaven, the other IIRC achieve their immortality, true sages. (Alchemists?) There's not much detail, but the distinction is made. And IIRC Enho is one of the self-made ones. The anime had him offer to fix the scabbard, but that's not in the books, where only the earlier Meikun (great ruler) of Kei had made the sword and scabbard, suggesting it's up to Youko to fix it, if that's even possible.
Youma are the most magical beings the average person might have the misfortune of running into -- though there's also the more common, less intelligent, and more tameable youjyuu, the various flying mounts -- but the world also has gods and goddesses, who might bestow some regalia.
Not all kingdoms may *have* Imperial Regalia, or have equally interesting Regalia; if Kei's set was made in the past 400 years by an emperor, then before that... nothing. Or maybe just the jewel. History isn't static; things get made, and unmade.
Youko uses the sword all the time. :p The clairvoyance power not so much, but then she can't control it without the scabbard. It'd have made the Taiki-search a lot easier. (And if it can really see the future.... um.)
Magic... yeah, low-key, but something's out there. In the novels, or at least Eugene's version, there's wizards of the air and of the earth. One set are the bureaucratic sennin, entered into the rolls of Heaven, the other IIRC achieve their immortality, true sages. (Alchemists?) There's not much detail, but the distinction is made. And IIRC Enho is one of the self-made ones. The anime had him offer to fix the scabbard, but that's not in the books, where only the earlier Meikun (great ruler) of Kei had made the sword and scabbard, suggesting it's up to Youko to fix it, if that's even possible.
Youma are the most magical beings the average person might have the misfortune of running into -- though there's also the more common, less intelligent, and more tameable youjyuu, the various flying mounts -- but the world also has gods and goddesses, who might bestow some regalia.
Not all kingdoms may *have* Imperial Regalia, or have equally interesting Regalia; if Kei's set was made in the past 400 years by an emperor, then before that... nothing. Or maybe just the jewel. History isn't static; things get made, and unmade.
Eugene counts it among the regalia.Jinx999 wrote:The term "Wizard" in the twelve kingdoms appears to be the common term for the Sennin - the immortals. It doesn't seem to refer to spellcasters.
The healing jewel, IIRC, is a rare and valuable item, but it's a step below the actual imperial regalia.
http://www.eugenewoodbury.com/twilight/ ... t_ch06.htm
though also "crown jewel" a bit earlier.
Like I said, the split between bureaucratic and self-made wizards is a few obscure lines in the novels. But they are there.
Also see http://cantok.freehostia.com/02ranks.html#sennin hisen vs. chisen.
Woodbury's, too. But I wasn't defending the existence of "spellcasters" per se, just the existence of humans who had some sort of magical ability -- enough to become immortal, even. Alchemists? Crafters? Can't know.Jinx999 wrote:There are different types of Sennin, but none, IIRC, appear to be spellcasters - despite the term Wizard being used in the tokyopop translation.